With all the many references to musical instruments found in the bible, there is one instrument that is the most important; that is, the “drum.” Anyone who claims that drums were not mentioned or used in the bible, are absolutely clueless and their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.
Unfortunately, you will not find the word “drum” in the bible but you will find a drum-like, percussion instrument called a “timbrel.” The best description of a timbrel (sometimes referred as tambour) is a hand-drum with miniature cymbals around the edges; it is covered on one side with parchment, cloth or animal skin. It’s held in one hand and “beat” (to smite) with the other hand to keep the tempo during praise and worship in the Old Testament.
"The drum (toph). Of this there were many varieties, some of them resembling modern drums. The Egyptians had a long drum, of wood or copper, 2½ feet long, resembling the tom-tom of India, and beaten by the hand. Another form was shaped like a cask with bulging centre, and was made of copper. It was of the same length as the other, but larger around, and was beaten with sticks. Another drum was more like our kettle-drum; and one of these, the rabbins say, was placed in the temple court to call the priests to prayer, and could be heard from Jerusalem to Jericho." ~ (William Smith; revised and edited by F.N. and M.A. Peloubet, Smith’s Bible dictionary [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997.)
The reason that the word “drum” was not found in the bible is because the first modern-day version of the drum wasn’t common until around the 1540’s A.D.
About 4000 years ago, these instruments were not called “drums,” they had different names but had the same basic purpose and function. Just as dinosaurs in the bible were once called dragons, behemoth and Leviathan; nowadays, the timbrel, tabret and Toph (drum) are now called percussion, drum or tambourine.
To be more specific about this ancient percussion instrument, this hand-drum named timbrel (or tophet in Hebrew), we must remember that drums, just like any other musical instrument, started simple then evolved (for the lack of a better definition) into other complex instruments. It only makes common sense that as percussion instruments progress, so does the music that changes along with it. Furthermore, when electricity was finally discovered and commonly used, it opened new doors for new instruments, new sounds and techniques and new styles of music. Many pipe organs and pianos in churches use electricity as well. If anyone tells you that electricity is from the devil, they are ignorant because the bible says that God created all things; even electricity in the form of lightning.
"A percussion instrument that was carried and beaten by hand. Considered inappropriate for the Temple, it was probably played primarily by women (Ps. 68:25). The timbrel may have been excluded from the Temple instruments because of its great popularity with the Canaanite fertility cults. Among the Hebrew people, it was associated with merrymaking and processions (Gen. 31:27). Remnants of timbrels with pieces of bronze inserted in the rim have been uncovered by archaeologists. Thus, the instrument could be shaken as well as beaten." ~ (Youngblood, Ronald F., General Editor; F.F. Bruce and R.K. Harrison, Consulting Editors, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Dictionary, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1995.)
"The timbrel, a form of tambourine, a narrow hoop covered with a tightened skin, and struck with the hand. On the Egyptian monuments are three kinds—the circular, the square, and another formed by two squares separated by a bar." ~ (William Smith; revised and edited by F.N. and M.A. Peloubet, Smith’s Bible dictionary [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997.)
Thus, the Israelites used the timbrel to keep the tempo; or as some would say to keep the “beat.” (From a personal perspective, anyone using the term “beat” in place of the proper musical term “tempo,” has little or absolutely no knowledge of musical insight and I wouldn’t trust anything they have to say about music anyway; it’s like taking marriage advice from a counselor who has been divorced three times.)
Are not the modern-day tambourine and the modern-day drum, a percussion instrument? They are both used to keep the tempo, both hit with hand or stick and both used to make music. Just because the Israelites started off with a few light-percussion instruments doesn’t mean that today’s Christians cannot use more complex and better-sounding percussion instruments. There is no Scripture to stop this from happening.
The modern “drum-set” is now the upgrade from the earliest hand-held timbrel. The modern-day drum-set is the contemporary version of the ancient timbrel and the drum-set is used in many musical praise and worship bands. Just as church members have moved forward from having small group church services in people’s homes in the 1st century to an off-site community church building in the 21st century, so has the percussion of the Old Testament moved from a small hand-held drum used by ancient Hebrews to the modern-day drum-sets of today’s church bands. There is nothing wrong with this!
Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music or drums are fleshly?
Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music or drums are evil?
Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music or drums of the world?
Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music or drums are sinful?
Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music or drums from the devil?
It doesn’t, as we will see further on.
The timbrel was the one of the principle percussion instruments for the Israelites. It was very similar to the modern-day tambourine. Eventually, over thousands of years the timbrel has easily evolved into the modern-day tambourine. Even most modern English translations of the bible today have substituted the word timbrel as a “tambourine” even though the timbrel was entirely a different kind of percussion instrument.
The word timbrel is “used in the Old Testament in both singular and plural form, so as to suggest that the former referred to a hoop of wood or metal over which was stretched a parchment head; while the plural was perhaps used to designate the tambourine with bells or jangles fixed at intervals in hoops (wikipedia, timbrel).”
When David encouraged the Israelites to praise God, he said, “Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp (Psalm 149:3, KJV).” Why would anyone praise God with dancing, along with music, without keeping some sort of tempo? Being a drummer and percussionist myself, I can understand that the timbrel must have kept the time (tempo) in order for everyone to sing along and dance in unison. Have you ever tried to dance and sing without some sort of tempo or rhythm? It’s a musical train wreck, especially if there are hundreds of people and half of them lack musical talent or singing skills.
Evidently, the Psalmist (David) did not specify at what the tempo the psalm was to be played but I would assume that the God wanted us Christians to understand through His Word that the tempo was important but more relevant was the message in the song. I believe that’s why God allowed the lyrics of David’s Psalms to be written down as words and not as music notes. In other words, play all the music you want, but without words, the song is meaningless. Of course, it’s only meaningless unless there’s something else to accompany it, such as dancing before the Lord, expressing joy from your heart and in celebration and praise to God for the wonderful things He has done.
I believe that God made sure to include the timbrel in His Word because God is not the author of confusion; praise and worship music must be orderly and in sync. In the Old Testament, Israel praised the Lord with various stringed-instruments, dancing, singing, shouting and playing the timbrel and other percussion instruments. From the descriptions given of all these multiple instruments, it almost sounds as if there were large groups of musicians praising God; kind of like a Christian Rock band.
The world, from every nation, tribe and tongue has taken something beautiful, like music that comes from God, and put their own spin on it and has used it for evil, cultic rituals and for their own selfish benefits. Drums, in and of them, are not evil. Would you say that tents are evil without a reason to make them evil? How about tent-makers? Are tent-makers evil because they make “evil” tents to cover the witches who perform black Sabbaths in the desert?
The Apostle Paul was a tent-maker, is Paul and evil man or a righteous man declared by Christ? Obviously, Paul was a righteous man even though he made and crafted tents. Perhaps later on, an evil man with evil motives came into the local tent shop where Paul’s tent had been placed on consignment. Is the tent evil? Was Paul evil for making the tent?
No, tents are no more evil than drums are. Drums are merely a musical instrument that is used to keep the tempo of a song. What man decides to use drums for, is his business. However, for me and my family, I will use drums for the Lord just as the Israelites did when praising God. In the end it’s all a matter of the heart!
Every nation, culture, tribe and person has their own idea as to the history of and the origin of, the modern-day “drum.” Unfortunately, we cannot rely on the opinions, traditions and philosophies of men whether they are true or not; for Christians the Scriptures must be our standard and our guide for true biblical praise and worship music.
Colossians 2:8 - “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ (KJV).”
True worship does not come from the “beat” or tempo, the rhythm, the sound or even from the words or lyrics; true worship comes from having the right attitude in your heart. Words can be empty and meaningless unless the right motive of the heart is involved. Music, along with drums, a catchy melody and a repeating rhythm with lyrics are merely a tool; or a vehicle that helps us to get there. Music is merely the means by which we are ushered into acceptable praise and worship.
When God looks at our worship, is He worried that we are worshipping Him with a tempo? When we are praising God, is He looking down saying, “Those worshippers are using drums to worship me with. I do not accept the worship from them.” Is God concerned that we are using a medium to accompany us in our heart-felt worship? If our praise and worship is from the heart with having the right attitude, does it really matter the tempo or “beat” (I really hate that word) in which our songs are kept?
John 4:23, 24 – “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth (NLT).”
Did you see that? “True worshippers” worship God in “spirit and truth,” not by the “beat” or tempo. In other words, the music, tempo, drums and the “beat” are irrelevant! Why? Because it is the heart (attitude, motive) of the worshipper that God sees; not the style, beat, rhythm, or tempo of the music. Again, the music is only a “vehicle” to help us get there. There are probably thousands of people who attempt to worship God every Sunday morning with pipe organs and pianos that do not have a heart for worship. Does God hear the music or “beat” over the hearts of worship? What God is looking for, is people who worship Him in spirit and truth; the drums along with the music are merely a means by which we are led into praise and worship.
Some people may say, “Since when does something become Christian by merely "Christianizing" the terminology and placing Christ’s name in front of it? How about the Roman cross that was used to kill the worst of criminals in Rome? It was a torture device now it’s a holy icon, seen in practically every church building in the world & hanging around millions of Christian necks as a sign of their faith. It was originally Roman (pagan, heathen) in its history, now it’s Christian.
How about baptism? Why did Jesus use baptism in his day? It’s because the people knew what it was. In some pagan rituals, people would be baptized in bull’s blood as a symbol of eternal life. Others used water as a symbol of purification. In Judaism, it was a familiar practice for new converts. It was pagan and heathen, now it’s Christian.
Since God can use the things of the world to honor Him, such as the Roman method of torture and baptismal pagan bull’s blood practice, why wouldn’t God want Christians to take back what was originally ours to glorify Him with? That is, music; which includes drums, stringed instruments, wonderful words and other various instruments!
Another percussion instrument that God chose the Israelites to use during praise and worship was the tabret. How do I know that the tabret was not just a tambourine and more of a drum-like instrument?
Nahum 2:6-7 “The gates of the rivers shall be opened, and the palace shall be dissolved. And Huzzab shall be led away captive, she shall be brought up, and her maids shall lead her as with the voice of doves, tabering upon their breasts (KJV).”
• Easton's Bible Dictionary says that tabering is like “playing on a small drum or tabret. In Nahum 2:7, where alone it occurs, it means beating on the breast, as players beat on the tabret.”
• In Smith's Bible Dictionary tabering “connects itself with toph, "a timbrel”…the "tabour" or "tabor" was a musical instrument of the drum type which with the pipe formed the band of a country village. To "tabour," accordingly, is to beat with loud strokes, as men beat upon such an instrument.”
• “In Nahum 2:7, where the word "tabering" occurs, it means beating on the breast, as drummers beat on the tabret.” – (Wikipedia, timbrel or tabret)
A “tabret” is a small version of the “Toph” or “Tof.” The term “Tof” implies the word “tophet,” which means to smite, which is how you play the Tof. It is very similar to the medieval tabor drum (or tabour), “which consists of a circular frame of two hoops fitting within one another in which a cloth or animal skin is stretched across to create a small, one-headed or two-sided drum. Since no records, pictures or drawings of tabrets have ever been found, some have come to believe that the tabret is an instrument that is between a tambourine and a modern-day drum.
Originally, the tabor was believed to be a two-sided drum with strings that were strung across one side on a head to create a loud snap. The tabor is believed to be the very first version of the modern-day snare drum. Because of the lack of precise information, in some versions of the Holy Bible, the word tambourine is used in place of tabret and timbrel (Hebrew; Tof), flip-flopped and vice versa.
The tabret was used for:
I. Celebrations
1 Samuel 18:6 – “And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick (KJV).”
II. Prophesying
1 Samuel 10:5 – “After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy: (KJV)”
III. Praise
Psalm 150:4 – “Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs (KJV).”
IV. Worship
Jeremiah 31:4 - Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry (KJV).”
IV. Religious Services
2 Samuel 6:5 – “And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals (KJV).”
1 Chronicles 13:8 - And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets (KJV).
Psalm 68:25 – “The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels.
Psalm 81:2 – “Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery (KJV).”
Psalm 149:3 – “Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp (KJV).”
All musical instruments that were available to the Israelites, were used to praise the Lord God: The Israelites were not limited to only two instruments, such as in many churches today that consist of a piano and pipe organ alone. If it was acceptable for the Israelites to have huge bands of people playing all kinds of “instruments of musick” during praise and worship, then it’s acceptable for us today’s Christians to do the same. To oppose this idea is legalistic and burdensome. The freedom we have inherited in Christ gives us release from all those rules and regulations of the Old Testament.
2 Chronicles 5:13 – “It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; (KJV)”
Let’s face it; music really has little to do with praise and worship. As I stated earlier, the musical instruments in a song are merely a means by which we move into our praise and worship. It’s really what comes from the heart that God loves the most. Your motives for praise and worship are worth more to God than having a drummer in the band or a “beat” in the song. Anyone who is worried about having drums in a Christian band or a “beat” to keep the tempo has gotten their priorities in the wrong places. They are more focused upon themselves and the flesh rather than upon the kind worship that pleases God.
Some legalistic and biblically ignorant Christians may say that having drums in a Christian song or Praise and Worship band “feeds” the flesh. The following are a couple of quotes by Christians who have absolutely no clue about using drums in Christian music or what the Scripture say about it:
• “It is the beat which either appeals to the flesh (Rock, Blues) Soul (Classical) or Spirit(Christian).”
• “The lyrics are irrelevant, when the beat is fleshly.”
Just as the word “drum” is not found in the King James Version of the Holy Bible, you will not find the phrase “music feeds the flesh” and you will not find the word “feed, drum, beat or music” associated with the flesh.
The bible says that there are “deeds” of the flesh but there is no mention of anything that “feeds” the flesh. These fleshly deeds are found in Galatians 5:19-23):
• Immorality
• Impurity
• Sensuality
• Idolatry
• Sorcery
• Enmities
• Strife
• Jealousy
• Outbursts of anger
• Disputes
• Dissensions
• Factions
• Envying
• Drunkenness
• Carousing
I have heard that some Christians have even gone as far as to say that Christian music that includes drums, appeal to the flesh. In other words, it is “fleshly.” What does God’s Word have to say about what is “fleshly?”
• 2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward (KJV).”
• Colossians 2:18 – “Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind (KJV).”
• 1 Peter 2:11 – “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul (KJV).”
• Ezekiel 16:26 - You also committed harlotry with the Egyptians, your very fleshly neighbors, and increased your acts of harlotry to provoke Me to anger (NKJV).
• Hebrews 7:16 - “…who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life (NKJV).”
• Hebrews 9:10 – “…concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation (NKJV).”
Summery:
1. fleshly wisdom
2. fleshly mind
3. fleshly lusts
4. fleshly neighbors
5. fleshly commandment
6. fleshly ordinances
There we have it; I didn’t see any mention of music, tempo, the “beat” or Rock music as being “fleshly.” As a matter of fact, there are no examples of music or drums “feeding” the flesh either.
As mentioned previously, I really don’t care where the supposed origin of drums came from; I am not using drums for that purpose. Just as God used a Roman cross to save us from our sins, Christian Contemporary Rock bands use drums to write music that glorifies God and it helps us to move into a heart of praise and worship.
Anyone who claims that Christian Rock music is “fleshly” because it includes drums or that Christian Rock music appeals to the flesh, it only expressing their useless opinion! To do do this...is fleshly! Sheesh, what a frigg'n hypocrite. What really happens is that the music moves and carries us into a spirit or attitude of praise and worship. Thus, when this happens we are actually walking and living in the spirit and worshipping God in spirit (attitude) and truth (knowing Christ). Music being fleshly is not found in the Holy Scriptures and making the claim that Christian Rock music that includes drums is fleshly, is unbiblical and a lie. It is man’s opinions alone, nothing more. Do not fear man, but fear God.
Nowadays, some Christians who are ignorant of music theory, biblical music history and what true worship is, would make the claim that Christian music should emphasize the melody, not the “beat.”
Does Christian music emphasize the melody if drums are involved? When you hear a Christian Contemporary/Rock song on the radio, do you remember what the drums did or what the melody is?
For example, when you hear the song “Jesus Saves” by Jeremy Camp, do you hear or remember “boom, pop,(rest) boom, pop, crash, (rest) boom, pop, (rest) boom, pop, crash?” Or, do you remember the chorus, “Sing it out, to let all the world know that Jesus saves. Raise a shout, to let all the world know, that Jesus saves?”
Do you know why you remember the chorus more than the drum beat or the words to the verses? First of all, most people aren’t professional drummers and second, it’s because the chorus is the melody! The melody is the focus in the song and that’s why the chorus is usually played louder than the verses, thus emphasizing the melody and not the “beat.” The drum beat is simply a rhythm that carries the song and keeps the tempo to get us to the melody. The melody is the focus; the “beat” is actually a “back-beat” that keeps the song moving in a forward direction, that always leads us back to the chorus.
One simple guideline for Christian music is that it’s okay to have drums.
Revealing God's grace and truth to a confused church, the unbelieving and a dying world.
Monday, January 31, 2011
Sunday, January 30, 2011
The Heed
Here, I exist. I am just a faint whisper flowing in the wind, a mist of haze. Does anyone hear me?
I am screaming at the top of my lungs. I only survive here. I’m a single voice in a crowded room.
I am one among millions.
I shout into the blizzard. No one hears my cries. Frozen tears fall from my eyes. I am a minnow in a sea of giants. I am here! Why can’t you hear me?
I am a single raindrop in a thunderstorm. I plunge from the sky alone. Destined to join the rest in due time. For now, I will fall and I will speak.
Is this all there is to this so-called life? No. I am only one among millions.
Here me now.
I am screaming at the top of my lungs. I only survive here. I’m a single voice in a crowded room.
I am one among millions.
I shout into the blizzard. No one hears my cries. Frozen tears fall from my eyes. I am a minnow in a sea of giants. I am here! Why can’t you hear me?
I am a single raindrop in a thunderstorm. I plunge from the sky alone. Destined to join the rest in due time. For now, I will fall and I will speak.
Is this all there is to this so-called life? No. I am only one among millions.
Here me now.
Saturday, January 29, 2011
What Makes Music Christian?
edwardpf123
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VgHeYWv2M
This was very first comment on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VgHeYWv2M
“What makes music Christian? Is it the genre? Is it the sound, style, beat or tempo? If I played Handel's Messiah without the choir singing, you would never know it was Christian. If I played Shine by the Newsboys without the lyrics or vocals, you would never know it was Christian. If I played "Baby Got Back" & "Baby Got Bible" back to back without the vocals, how would you know the difference? Is it the beat, the tempo, style or genre? NO, it's the lyrics & words alone. Prejudice is a sin!”
@MartyJSwizzle -No, the type of music is very clear by the beat. It is the beat which either appeals to the flesh (Rock, Blues) Soul (Classical) or Spirit(Christian). - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -you wouldn't know Handel's Messiah just by the music-who are you kidding! You would know Handel's music was different then Rock and Roll, and it would have a different effect on you. Anyone with any sense can tell different kinds of music without lyrics. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What I meant was that without knowing the title of Handel’s Messiah & without the choir, you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between other Classical composers arrangements such as Bach, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky. It would just sound like another Classical musical arrangement just like all the others. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I didn’t say that you couldn’t tell the difference between Handel’s Messiah & Rock ‘n Roll, you did. Now, you are putting words in my mouth. If Handel’s Messiah was made into a Rock version, it wouldn’t be so boring anymore! I never said or insinuated that people couldn’t tell the difference between different types of music. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Where does it say in Scripture that the beat of music determines whether or not it appeals to the flesh, the soul and the Spirit? - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Well, we finally have it admitted. It’s not about the lyrics then. Great, now tell me what makes music “fleshly?” It’s the beat? Prove it.
I’m not talking about your opinion or the opinion of some ill-informed scientist or psychologist. I’m talking about biblically. Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music is fleshly? Answer it, don’t ignore it. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1John 2:19 - BereanBeacon1
@BereanBeacon1 - Being a Berean, I would expect you to obey context. Evidently, you do not believe in context and you should be ashamed. In 1 John 2:19, the prophet is NOT talking about saved believers leaving the church but people who are antichrists and fakes. Christians who choose to listen to ROCK have not left the church but only have taken the piano & organ to a new level of worship. David’s temple had thousand of musicians and you are complaining about a few loud drums & guitars? Ps 150:5. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -David musicians would never had played the Godless music played by 'Christian' rock groups. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What makes Christian metal/rock groups “Godless?” Is it the music or the words in the song? It’s certainly not the words so it must be the music. Therefore, where in Scripture does it specifically state that the tempo or beat of music makes it “fleshly?” I think you just made this up. Sounds like a man-made idea to me. - MartyJSwizzle
@john146only - Yes, you couldn't do much with it. Obviously, that music was not meant for you. However, there is an audience for that kind of music; they are the youth of today. What they need is relevance. In other words, as Christians we need to be able to connect with them where they are. That is, creating music they will like & listen too. Today's Christians bands have a message: Jesus is Lord!
Please search the band "For Today - Agape + lyrics" and watch. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -No, their message is that Christians don't want to be different then the world.
The lyrics are irrelevant, when the beat is fleshly. The youth need to hear the truth of God's words, not be deceived that Christianity can't be distinquished from the world. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - They are different from the world because of their message, genius. So, the gospel is irrelevant when sang over the top of a quick tempo? Kids are hearing the truth of God’s words. The lyrics are virtually sermons, quoting from Scripture & the kids know the words. If you have ever heard, listened to or read the lyrics from the bands that play Christian metal/rock then you wouldn’t state such ridiculous statements. Therefore, you speak out of ignorance. – MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Hey, you clearly haven't watched the video-the lyrics aren't the issue! The MUSIC is.
You can put 'Amazing Grace' to a Rock music beat and it DESTROYS it. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually, the 'message' has very little to do with it. In Acts Paul refused to have the gospel proclaimed by a demonic possesed young woman (Acts 16:18). God isn't going to use the ways of the world to put forth His gospel. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzleMany - churches use rock`n roll and artistry just for amusement, puzzlement of the young generation to capture their interests to go to a church. No cross standing at the entrance, just inviting a paganism into a kind of ecstatic moment!
This misleading concept destroys many, and bethinking themselves being a "Christian", but only to the name, never been born again! - missionoc
@missionoc - So, the misleading concept is having a church playing Rock ‘n Roll style praise & worship but there’s no cross at the entrance of the church? Did the first century Christians have a cross at the entrance of their church? Did they even have a church building?
You are reaching for straws for any excuse to downplay Rock music. If you don’t like it; don’t listen to it. Stop condemning others who do. My salvation does not depend on the style or beat of music I choose to worship with! - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -And who is justifying the cross at the entrance of the church? But that is certainly not a compromise with the world as is adopting their music and pretending that adding different lyrics makes it Christian. And no one claimed that your salvation depended on the music you listen to, it is reflection of your spiritual maturity. And your childish reaction is typical of the milk fed Christians today, who cannot put up with sound doctrine, but want their ears tickled. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Listening to a certain style of music has absolutely nothing to do with my “spiritual maturity.” It has everything to do with musical tastes and preferences. What is a reflection of my spiritual maturity is, knowing that the style of music is irrelevant to the message in the music. So, I have a “childish” reaction? Why do you judge me? You don’t even know me. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually it does. Musical tastes are a reflection of ones understanding of scripture. We are to reject the old and love the music God loves, that glorifies Him in all aspects, not pretend that you can keep a demonic beat and put some 'christian lyrics' in and make it acceptable. And I am tired of Christians who won't grow up and embarrass Christ with their determination to stay part of the world. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Is that suppose to be an intelligent question? It is a fact that different beats produce different effects on the body. That is why you have different music for different scenes in movies. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Music does have an effect on your mind, memory and mood. Therefore, I prefer to worship my Lord with beating drums, fast tempos, screaming vocals and loud guitars.
John 4:23 “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.” Hmm…I didn’t piano’s & organs in there anywhere. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Christian music isn't the music of the world. Because you put a few lyrics in that you think are Christian doesn't make it so. It must be pure in all of it's components, rhythm, melody and lyrics, not just one. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Works of the Flesh - Gal 5:19-21 “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.” I didn’t see Rock music in there. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -How do you explain your denial of reality? The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, PEACE-see any peace in Rock and Roll, in loud guitars, fast tempos and crazy beat? The Bible is made to be played with by attempting to find loopholes. That is the typical attitude of the Laodican Christian, 'where in the Bible does it specifically say....' - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - I never suggested that anyone find loopholes in the bible. Laodicean Christians are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. They are rich, in need of nothing, comfortable & spiritually numb.
“Where in the Bible does it specifically say,” is the attitude of a BEREAN. Acts 17:11 “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, that is the typical justification of the 'seeker churches' to become like the world. Paul never compromised doctrinal principles and ACTED like the world. He preached SEPARATION from the world (2Cor.6:17). - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Paul never ACTED like the world? What do you think he was doing to support himself during his travels? Paul was a tentmaker, Mattie is a musician. What’s the difference? They both work, they both preach, they both are creative, they are both in the world, they are both in the world but they didn’t ACT like the world in the sense of continual sinning & rejection of God. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - We all act like the world. Can you pick out a Christian in a crowd of people? No, the only way we can tell the difference is through relationships. You don’t judge by outer appearances or by their occupation or skills. That’s what the carnal man does, the spiritual man discerns through relationship, behavior & prompting of the Holy Spirit.
What doctrinal principles are there to support your belief that Rock music is “fleshly” or “worldly?” Come on; Book, chapter & verse. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, the Bereans were searching the scriptures to see what Paul was saying was true. They weren't asking him 'show me specifically where it states I can't do such and such'
Clearly, you have a hard time reading your Bible, the Laodicean's SAY 'I am rich, but in fact are wretched, and miserable and POOR, BLIND and naked'
Where does it say in the Bible that prejudice is a sin? - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -What you mean is that you have gotten comfortable with compromise, that is what is now taken today for one's 'faith growing'
God is not glorified by the things that the world glories in. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - No, I have learned that grace, mercy and truth are above being religious, arrogance & piety by valuing man’s opinions & traditions. 1 Peter 4:11 – “If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in ALL things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I have no problem living in reality. Again, you judge me as if I am delusional. Let’s stick to the facts & not get off into judging people, ok?
The “peace” that Paul is writing about in Gal 5 has nothing to do with music, the beat or even praise & worship. The “peace” Paul is talking about is the kind of peace that comes from the Holy Spirit that lives within us, that causes us to get along with others & to have an attitude of harmony among believers (Romans14:14-19). - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -LOL! All of you thin-skinned guys start whining about being 'insulted'. If you are accepting rock music as being Christian, you aren't living in reality, you are rejecting it. The 'peace' that Paul is writing about is produced by the Holy Spirit, it is contentment, and it fits in with Christian music (Col.3:16), not with Rock which produces the same emotions that the 'secular' Rock does, frenzy, lust, anger, etc. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Wow, ok. Well, I think or conversation is over here. I think the personal judgments, mocking & cynicism have gone a little too far. Let me leave you with one final thought.
"It is impossible to judge anther person's motives. One cannot determine the heart in a person in a first-time encounter. Let the Scriptures, not your heritage, be your standard. Let love be your law and let mercy be your message." - MartyJSwizzle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VgHeYWv2M
This was very first comment on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VgHeYWv2M
“What makes music Christian? Is it the genre? Is it the sound, style, beat or tempo? If I played Handel's Messiah without the choir singing, you would never know it was Christian. If I played Shine by the Newsboys without the lyrics or vocals, you would never know it was Christian. If I played "Baby Got Back" & "Baby Got Bible" back to back without the vocals, how would you know the difference? Is it the beat, the tempo, style or genre? NO, it's the lyrics & words alone. Prejudice is a sin!”
@MartyJSwizzle -No, the type of music is very clear by the beat. It is the beat which either appeals to the flesh (Rock, Blues) Soul (Classical) or Spirit(Christian). - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -you wouldn't know Handel's Messiah just by the music-who are you kidding! You would know Handel's music was different then Rock and Roll, and it would have a different effect on you. Anyone with any sense can tell different kinds of music without lyrics. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What I meant was that without knowing the title of Handel’s Messiah & without the choir, you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between other Classical composers arrangements such as Bach, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky. It would just sound like another Classical musical arrangement just like all the others. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I didn’t say that you couldn’t tell the difference between Handel’s Messiah & Rock ‘n Roll, you did. Now, you are putting words in my mouth. If Handel’s Messiah was made into a Rock version, it wouldn’t be so boring anymore! I never said or insinuated that people couldn’t tell the difference between different types of music. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Where does it say in Scripture that the beat of music determines whether or not it appeals to the flesh, the soul and the Spirit? - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Well, we finally have it admitted. It’s not about the lyrics then. Great, now tell me what makes music “fleshly?” It’s the beat? Prove it.
I’m not talking about your opinion or the opinion of some ill-informed scientist or psychologist. I’m talking about biblically. Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music is fleshly? Answer it, don’t ignore it. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1John 2:19 - BereanBeacon1
@BereanBeacon1 - Being a Berean, I would expect you to obey context. Evidently, you do not believe in context and you should be ashamed. In 1 John 2:19, the prophet is NOT talking about saved believers leaving the church but people who are antichrists and fakes. Christians who choose to listen to ROCK have not left the church but only have taken the piano & organ to a new level of worship. David’s temple had thousand of musicians and you are complaining about a few loud drums & guitars? Ps 150:5. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -David musicians would never had played the Godless music played by 'Christian' rock groups. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What makes Christian metal/rock groups “Godless?” Is it the music or the words in the song? It’s certainly not the words so it must be the music. Therefore, where in Scripture does it specifically state that the tempo or beat of music makes it “fleshly?” I think you just made this up. Sounds like a man-made idea to me. - MartyJSwizzle
@john146only - Yes, you couldn't do much with it. Obviously, that music was not meant for you. However, there is an audience for that kind of music; they are the youth of today. What they need is relevance. In other words, as Christians we need to be able to connect with them where they are. That is, creating music they will like & listen too. Today's Christians bands have a message: Jesus is Lord!
Please search the band "For Today - Agape + lyrics" and watch. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -No, their message is that Christians don't want to be different then the world.
The lyrics are irrelevant, when the beat is fleshly. The youth need to hear the truth of God's words, not be deceived that Christianity can't be distinquished from the world. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - They are different from the world because of their message, genius. So, the gospel is irrelevant when sang over the top of a quick tempo? Kids are hearing the truth of God’s words. The lyrics are virtually sermons, quoting from Scripture & the kids know the words. If you have ever heard, listened to or read the lyrics from the bands that play Christian metal/rock then you wouldn’t state such ridiculous statements. Therefore, you speak out of ignorance. – MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Hey, you clearly haven't watched the video-the lyrics aren't the issue! The MUSIC is.
You can put 'Amazing Grace' to a Rock music beat and it DESTROYS it. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually, the 'message' has very little to do with it. In Acts Paul refused to have the gospel proclaimed by a demonic possesed young woman (Acts 16:18). God isn't going to use the ways of the world to put forth His gospel. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzleMany - churches use rock`n roll and artistry just for amusement, puzzlement of the young generation to capture their interests to go to a church. No cross standing at the entrance, just inviting a paganism into a kind of ecstatic moment!
This misleading concept destroys many, and bethinking themselves being a "Christian", but only to the name, never been born again! - missionoc
@missionoc - So, the misleading concept is having a church playing Rock ‘n Roll style praise & worship but there’s no cross at the entrance of the church? Did the first century Christians have a cross at the entrance of their church? Did they even have a church building?
You are reaching for straws for any excuse to downplay Rock music. If you don’t like it; don’t listen to it. Stop condemning others who do. My salvation does not depend on the style or beat of music I choose to worship with! - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -And who is justifying the cross at the entrance of the church? But that is certainly not a compromise with the world as is adopting their music and pretending that adding different lyrics makes it Christian. And no one claimed that your salvation depended on the music you listen to, it is reflection of your spiritual maturity. And your childish reaction is typical of the milk fed Christians today, who cannot put up with sound doctrine, but want their ears tickled. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Listening to a certain style of music has absolutely nothing to do with my “spiritual maturity.” It has everything to do with musical tastes and preferences. What is a reflection of my spiritual maturity is, knowing that the style of music is irrelevant to the message in the music. So, I have a “childish” reaction? Why do you judge me? You don’t even know me. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually it does. Musical tastes are a reflection of ones understanding of scripture. We are to reject the old and love the music God loves, that glorifies Him in all aspects, not pretend that you can keep a demonic beat and put some 'christian lyrics' in and make it acceptable. And I am tired of Christians who won't grow up and embarrass Christ with their determination to stay part of the world. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Is that suppose to be an intelligent question? It is a fact that different beats produce different effects on the body. That is why you have different music for different scenes in movies. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Music does have an effect on your mind, memory and mood. Therefore, I prefer to worship my Lord with beating drums, fast tempos, screaming vocals and loud guitars.
John 4:23 “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.” Hmm…I didn’t piano’s & organs in there anywhere. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Christian music isn't the music of the world. Because you put a few lyrics in that you think are Christian doesn't make it so. It must be pure in all of it's components, rhythm, melody and lyrics, not just one. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Works of the Flesh - Gal 5:19-21 “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.” I didn’t see Rock music in there. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -How do you explain your denial of reality? The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, PEACE-see any peace in Rock and Roll, in loud guitars, fast tempos and crazy beat? The Bible is made to be played with by attempting to find loopholes. That is the typical attitude of the Laodican Christian, 'where in the Bible does it specifically say....' - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - I never suggested that anyone find loopholes in the bible. Laodicean Christians are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. They are rich, in need of nothing, comfortable & spiritually numb.
“Where in the Bible does it specifically say,” is the attitude of a BEREAN. Acts 17:11 “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, that is the typical justification of the 'seeker churches' to become like the world. Paul never compromised doctrinal principles and ACTED like the world. He preached SEPARATION from the world (2Cor.6:17). - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Paul never ACTED like the world? What do you think he was doing to support himself during his travels? Paul was a tentmaker, Mattie is a musician. What’s the difference? They both work, they both preach, they both are creative, they are both in the world, they are both in the world but they didn’t ACT like the world in the sense of continual sinning & rejection of God. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - We all act like the world. Can you pick out a Christian in a crowd of people? No, the only way we can tell the difference is through relationships. You don’t judge by outer appearances or by their occupation or skills. That’s what the carnal man does, the spiritual man discerns through relationship, behavior & prompting of the Holy Spirit.
What doctrinal principles are there to support your belief that Rock music is “fleshly” or “worldly?” Come on; Book, chapter & verse. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, the Bereans were searching the scriptures to see what Paul was saying was true. They weren't asking him 'show me specifically where it states I can't do such and such'
Clearly, you have a hard time reading your Bible, the Laodicean's SAY 'I am rich, but in fact are wretched, and miserable and POOR, BLIND and naked'
Where does it say in the Bible that prejudice is a sin? - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -What you mean is that you have gotten comfortable with compromise, that is what is now taken today for one's 'faith growing'
God is not glorified by the things that the world glories in. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - No, I have learned that grace, mercy and truth are above being religious, arrogance & piety by valuing man’s opinions & traditions. 1 Peter 4:11 – “If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in ALL things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I have no problem living in reality. Again, you judge me as if I am delusional. Let’s stick to the facts & not get off into judging people, ok?
The “peace” that Paul is writing about in Gal 5 has nothing to do with music, the beat or even praise & worship. The “peace” Paul is talking about is the kind of peace that comes from the Holy Spirit that lives within us, that causes us to get along with others & to have an attitude of harmony among believers (Romans14:14-19). - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -LOL! All of you thin-skinned guys start whining about being 'insulted'. If you are accepting rock music as being Christian, you aren't living in reality, you are rejecting it. The 'peace' that Paul is writing about is produced by the Holy Spirit, it is contentment, and it fits in with Christian music (Col.3:16), not with Rock which produces the same emotions that the 'secular' Rock does, frenzy, lust, anger, etc. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Wow, ok. Well, I think or conversation is over here. I think the personal judgments, mocking & cynicism have gone a little too far. Let me leave you with one final thought.
"It is impossible to judge anther person's motives. One cannot determine the heart in a person in a first-time encounter. Let the Scriptures, not your heritage, be your standard. Let love be your law and let mercy be your message." - MartyJSwizzle
Labels:
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Friday, January 28, 2011
Christian Music Destroys Youth?
This was my very first comment on the youtube.com video called Christian Rock Destroys Youth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VgHeYWv2M
The following are the comments made by other Christians:
@MartyJSwizzle -No, the type of music is very clear by the beat. It is the beat which either appeals to the flesh (Rock, Blues) Soul (Classical) or Spirit(Christian). - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -you wouldn't know Handel's Messiah just by the music-who are you kidding! You would know Handel's music was different then Rock and Roll, and it would have a different effect on you. Anyone with any sense can tell different kinds of music without lyrics. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What I meant was that without knowing the title of Handel’s Messiah & without the choir, you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between other Classical composers arrangements such as Bach, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky. It would just sound like another Classical musical arrangement just like all the others. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I didn’t say that you couldn’t tell the difference between Handel’s Messiah & Rock ‘n Roll, you did. Now, you are putting words in my mouth. If Handel’s Messiah was made into a Rock version, it wouldn’t be so boring anymore! I never said or insinuated that people couldn’t tell the difference between different types of music. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Where does it say in Scripture that the beat of music determines whether or not it appeals to the flesh, the soul and the Spirit? - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Well, we finally have it admitted. It’s not about the lyrics then. Great, now tell me what makes music “fleshly?” It’s the beat? Prove it.
I’m not talking about your opinion or the opinion of some ill-informed scientist or psychologist. I’m talking about biblically. Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music is fleshly? Answer it, don’t ignore it. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1John 2:19 - BereanBeacon1
@BereanBeacon1 - Being a Berean, I would expect you to obey context. Evidently, you do not believe in context and you should be ashamed. In 1 John 2:19, the prophet is NOT talking about saved believers leaving the church but people who are antichrists and fakes. Christians who choose to listen to ROCK have not left the church but only have taken the piano & organ to a new level of worship. David’s temple had thousand of musicians and you are complaining about a few loud drums & guitars? Ps 150:5. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -David musicians would never had played the Godless music played by 'Christian' rock groups. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What makes Christian metal/rock groups “Godless?” Is it the music or the words in the song? It’s certainly not the words so it must be the music. Therefore, where in Scripture does it specifically state that the tempo or beat of music makes it “fleshly?” I think you just made this up. Sounds like a man-made idea to me. - MartyJSwizzle
@john146only - Yes, you couldn't do much with it. Obviously, that music was not meant for you. However, there is an audience for that kind of music; they are the youth of today. What they need is relevance. In other words, as Christians we need to be able to connect with them where they are. That is, creating music they will like & listen too. Today's Christians bands have a message: Jesus is Lord!
Please search the band "For Today - Agape + lyrics" and watch. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -No, their message is that Christians don't want to be different then the world.
The lyrics are irrelevant, when the beat is fleshly. The youth need to hear the truth of God's words, not be deceived that Christianity can't be distinquished from the world. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - They are different from the world because of their message, genius. So, the gospel is irrelevant when sang over the top of a quick tempo? Kids are hearing the truth of God’s words. The lyrics are virtually sermons, quoting from Scripture & the kids know the words. If you have ever heard, listened to or read the lyrics from the bands that play Christian metal/rock then you wouldn’t state such ridiculous statements. Therefore, you speak out of ignorance. – MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Hey, you clearly haven't watched the video-the lyrics aren't the issue! The MUSIC is.
You can put 'Amazing Grace' to a Rock music beat and it DESTROYS it. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually, the 'message' has very little to do with it. In Acts Paul refused to have the gospel proclaimed by a demonic possesed young woman (Acts 16:18). God isn't going to use the ways of the world to put forth His gospel. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzleMany - churches use rock`n roll and artistry just for amusement, puzzlement of the young generation to capture their interests to go to a church. No cross standing at the entrance, just inviting a paganism into a kind of ecstatic moment!
This misleading concept destroys many, and bethinking themselves being a "Christian", but only to the name, never been born again! - missionoc
@missionoc - So, the misleading concept is having a church playing Rock ‘n Roll style praise & worship but there’s no cross at the entrance of the church? Did the first century Christians have a cross at the entrance of their church? Did they even have a church building?
You are reaching for straws for any excuse to downplay Rock music. If you don’t like it; don’t listen to it. Stop condemning others who do. My salvation does not depend on the style or beat of music I choose to worship with! - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -And who is justifying the cross at the entrance of the church? But that is certainly not a compromise with the world as is adopting their music and pretending that adding different lyrics makes it Christian. And no one claimed that your salvation depended on the music you listen to, it is reflection of your spiritual maturity. And your childish reaction is typical of the milk fed Christians today, who cannot put up with sound doctrine, but want their ears tickled. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Listening to a certain style of music has absolutely nothing to do with my “spiritual maturity.” It has everything to do with musical tastes and preferences. What is a reflection of my spiritual maturity is, knowing that the style of music is irrelevant to the message in the music. So, I have a “childish” reaction? Why do you judge me? You don’t even know me. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually it does. Musical tastes are a reflection of ones understanding of scripture. We are to reject the old and love the music God loves, that glorifies Him in all aspects, not pretend that you can keep a demonic beat and put some 'christian lyrics' in and make it acceptable. And I am tired of Christians who won't grow up and embarrass Christ with their determination to stay part of the world. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Is that suppose to be an intelligent question? It is a fact that different beats produce different effects on the body. That is why you have different music for different scenes in movies.
edwardpf123 32 minutes ago
@edwardpf123 - Music does have an effect on your mind, memory and mood. Therefore, I prefer to worship my Lord with beating drums, fast tempos, screaming vocals and loud guitars.
John 4:23 “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.” Hmm…I didn’t piano’s & organs in there anywhere. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Christian music isn't the music of the world. Because you put a few lyrics in that you think are Christian doesn't make it so. It must be pure in all of it's components, rhythm, melody and lyrics, not just one. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Works of the Flesh - Gal 5:19-21 “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.” I didn’t see Rock music in there. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -How do you explain your denial of reality? The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, PEACE-see any peace in Rock and Roll, in loud guitars, fast tempos and crazy beat? The Bible is made to be played with by attempting to find loopholes. That is the typical attitude of the Laodican Christian, 'where in the Bible does it specifically say....' - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - I never suggested that anyone find loopholes in the bible. Laodicean Christians are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. They are rich, in need of nothing, comfortable & spiritually numb.
“Where in the Bible does it specifically say,” is the attitude of a BEREAN. Acts 17:11 “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, that is the typical justification of the 'seeker churches' to become like the world. Paul never compromised doctrinal principles and ACTED like the world. He preached SEPARATION from the world. (2Cor.6:17) - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Paul never ACTED like the world? What do you think he was doing to support himself during his travels? Paul was a tentmaker, Mattie is a musician. What’s the difference? They both work, they both preach, they both are creative, they are both in the world, they are both in the world but they didn’t ACT like the world in the sense of continual sinning & rejection of God. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - We all act like the world. Can you pick out a Christian in a crowd of people? No, the only way we can tell the difference is through relationships. You don’t judge by outer appearances or by their occupation or skills. That’s what the carnal man does, the spiritual man discerns through relationship, behavior & prompting of the Holy Spirit.
What doctrinal principles are there to support your belief that Rock music is “fleshly” or “worldly?” Come on; Book, chapter & verse. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, the Bereans were searching the scriptures to see what Paul was saying was true. They weren't asking him 'show me specifically where it states I can't do such and such'
Clearly, you have a hard time reading your Bible, the Laodicean's SAY 'I am rich, but in fact are wretched, and miserable and POOR, BLIND and naked'
Where does it say in the Bible that prejudice is a sin? - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -What you mean is that you have gotten comfortable with compromise, that is what is now taken today for one's 'faith growing'
God is not glorified by the things that the world glories in. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - No, I have learned that grace, mercy and truth are above being religious, arrogance & piety by valuing man’s opinions & traditions. 1 Peter 4:11 – “If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in ALL things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I have no problem living in reality. Again, you judge me as if I am delusional. Let’s stick to the facts & not get off into judging people, ok?
The “peace” that Paul is writing about in Gal 5 has nothing to do with music, the beat or even praise & worship. The “peace” Paul is talking about is the kind of peace that comes from the Holy Spirit that lives within us, that causes us to get along with others & to have an attitude of harmony among believers (Romans14:14-19). - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -LOL! All of you thin-skinned guys start whining about being 'insulted'. If you are accepting rock music as being Christian, you aren't living in reality, you are rejecting it. The 'peace' that Paul is writing about is produced by the Holy Spirit, it is contentment, and it fits in with Christian music (Col.3:16), not with Rock which produces the same emotions that the 'secular' Rock does, frenzy, lust, anger, etc. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Wow, ok. Well, I think or conversation is over here. I think the personal judgments, mocking & cynicism have gone a little too far. Let me leave you with one final thought.
"It is impossible to judge anther person's motives. One cannot determine the heart in a person in a first-time encounter. Let the Scriptures, not your heritage, be your standard. Let love be your law and let mercy be your message." - MartyJSwizzle
“What makes music Christian? Is it the genre? Is it the sound, style, beat or tempo? If I played Handel's Messiah without the choir singing, you would never know it was Christian. If I played Shine by the Newsboys without the lyrics or vocals, you would never know it was Christian. If I played "Baby Got Back" & "Baby Got Bible" back to back without the vocals, how would you know the difference? Is it the beat, the tempo, style or genre? NO, it's the lyrics & words alone. Prejudice is a sin!” - MartyJSwizzle
The following are the comments made by other Christians:
@MartyJSwizzle -No, the type of music is very clear by the beat. It is the beat which either appeals to the flesh (Rock, Blues) Soul (Classical) or Spirit(Christian). - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -you wouldn't know Handel's Messiah just by the music-who are you kidding! You would know Handel's music was different then Rock and Roll, and it would have a different effect on you. Anyone with any sense can tell different kinds of music without lyrics. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What I meant was that without knowing the title of Handel’s Messiah & without the choir, you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between other Classical composers arrangements such as Bach, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky. It would just sound like another Classical musical arrangement just like all the others. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I didn’t say that you couldn’t tell the difference between Handel’s Messiah & Rock ‘n Roll, you did. Now, you are putting words in my mouth. If Handel’s Messiah was made into a Rock version, it wouldn’t be so boring anymore! I never said or insinuated that people couldn’t tell the difference between different types of music. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Where does it say in Scripture that the beat of music determines whether or not it appeals to the flesh, the soul and the Spirit? - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - Well, we finally have it admitted. It’s not about the lyrics then. Great, now tell me what makes music “fleshly?” It’s the beat? Prove it.
I’m not talking about your opinion or the opinion of some ill-informed scientist or psychologist. I’m talking about biblically. Where does it specifically say in Scripture that music is fleshly? Answer it, don’t ignore it. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1John 2:19 - BereanBeacon1
@BereanBeacon1 - Being a Berean, I would expect you to obey context. Evidently, you do not believe in context and you should be ashamed. In 1 John 2:19, the prophet is NOT talking about saved believers leaving the church but people who are antichrists and fakes. Christians who choose to listen to ROCK have not left the church but only have taken the piano & organ to a new level of worship. David’s temple had thousand of musicians and you are complaining about a few loud drums & guitars? Ps 150:5. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -David musicians would never had played the Godless music played by 'Christian' rock groups. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - What makes Christian metal/rock groups “Godless?” Is it the music or the words in the song? It’s certainly not the words so it must be the music. Therefore, where in Scripture does it specifically state that the tempo or beat of music makes it “fleshly?” I think you just made this up. Sounds like a man-made idea to me. - MartyJSwizzle
@john146only - Yes, you couldn't do much with it. Obviously, that music was not meant for you. However, there is an audience for that kind of music; they are the youth of today. What they need is relevance. In other words, as Christians we need to be able to connect with them where they are. That is, creating music they will like & listen too. Today's Christians bands have a message: Jesus is Lord!
Please search the band "For Today - Agape + lyrics" and watch. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -No, their message is that Christians don't want to be different then the world.
The lyrics are irrelevant, when the beat is fleshly. The youth need to hear the truth of God's words, not be deceived that Christianity can't be distinquished from the world. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - They are different from the world because of their message, genius. So, the gospel is irrelevant when sang over the top of a quick tempo? Kids are hearing the truth of God’s words. The lyrics are virtually sermons, quoting from Scripture & the kids know the words. If you have ever heard, listened to or read the lyrics from the bands that play Christian metal/rock then you wouldn’t state such ridiculous statements. Therefore, you speak out of ignorance. – MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Hey, you clearly haven't watched the video-the lyrics aren't the issue! The MUSIC is.
You can put 'Amazing Grace' to a Rock music beat and it DESTROYS it. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually, the 'message' has very little to do with it. In Acts Paul refused to have the gospel proclaimed by a demonic possesed young woman (Acts 16:18). God isn't going to use the ways of the world to put forth His gospel. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzleMany - churches use rock`n roll and artistry just for amusement, puzzlement of the young generation to capture their interests to go to a church. No cross standing at the entrance, just inviting a paganism into a kind of ecstatic moment!
This misleading concept destroys many, and bethinking themselves being a "Christian", but only to the name, never been born again! - missionoc
@missionoc - So, the misleading concept is having a church playing Rock ‘n Roll style praise & worship but there’s no cross at the entrance of the church? Did the first century Christians have a cross at the entrance of their church? Did they even have a church building?
You are reaching for straws for any excuse to downplay Rock music. If you don’t like it; don’t listen to it. Stop condemning others who do. My salvation does not depend on the style or beat of music I choose to worship with! - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -And who is justifying the cross at the entrance of the church? But that is certainly not a compromise with the world as is adopting their music and pretending that adding different lyrics makes it Christian. And no one claimed that your salvation depended on the music you listen to, it is reflection of your spiritual maturity. And your childish reaction is typical of the milk fed Christians today, who cannot put up with sound doctrine, but want their ears tickled. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Listening to a certain style of music has absolutely nothing to do with my “spiritual maturity.” It has everything to do with musical tastes and preferences. What is a reflection of my spiritual maturity is, knowing that the style of music is irrelevant to the message in the music. So, I have a “childish” reaction? Why do you judge me? You don’t even know me. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Actually it does. Musical tastes are a reflection of ones understanding of scripture. We are to reject the old and love the music God loves, that glorifies Him in all aspects, not pretend that you can keep a demonic beat and put some 'christian lyrics' in and make it acceptable. And I am tired of Christians who won't grow up and embarrass Christ with their determination to stay part of the world. - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -Is that suppose to be an intelligent question? It is a fact that different beats produce different effects on the body. That is why you have different music for different scenes in movies.
edwardpf123 32 minutes ago
@edwardpf123 - Music does have an effect on your mind, memory and mood. Therefore, I prefer to worship my Lord with beating drums, fast tempos, screaming vocals and loud guitars.
John 4:23 “But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.” Hmm…I didn’t piano’s & organs in there anywhere. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Christian music isn't the music of the world. Because you put a few lyrics in that you think are Christian doesn't make it so. It must be pure in all of it's components, rhythm, melody and lyrics, not just one. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Works of the Flesh - Gal 5:19-21 “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.” I didn’t see Rock music in there. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -How do you explain your denial of reality? The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, PEACE-see any peace in Rock and Roll, in loud guitars, fast tempos and crazy beat? The Bible is made to be played with by attempting to find loopholes. That is the typical attitude of the Laodican Christian, 'where in the Bible does it specifically say....' - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - I never suggested that anyone find loopholes in the bible. Laodicean Christians are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. They are rich, in need of nothing, comfortable & spiritually numb.
“Where in the Bible does it specifically say,” is the attitude of a BEREAN. Acts 17:11 “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, that is the typical justification of the 'seeker churches' to become like the world. Paul never compromised doctrinal principles and ACTED like the world. He preached SEPARATION from the world. (2Cor.6:17) - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Paul never ACTED like the world? What do you think he was doing to support himself during his travels? Paul was a tentmaker, Mattie is a musician. What’s the difference? They both work, they both preach, they both are creative, they are both in the world, they are both in the world but they didn’t ACT like the world in the sense of continual sinning & rejection of God. - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - We all act like the world. Can you pick out a Christian in a crowd of people? No, the only way we can tell the difference is through relationships. You don’t judge by outer appearances or by their occupation or skills. That’s what the carnal man does, the spiritual man discerns through relationship, behavior & prompting of the Holy Spirit.
What doctrinal principles are there to support your belief that Rock music is “fleshly” or “worldly?” Come on; Book, chapter & verse. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -Yes, the Bereans were searching the scriptures to see what Paul was saying was true. They weren't asking him 'show me specifically where it states I can't do such and such'
Clearly, you have a hard time reading your Bible, the Laodicean's SAY 'I am rich, but in fact are wretched, and miserable and POOR, BLIND and naked'
Where does it say in the Bible that prejudice is a sin? - edwardpf123
@MartyJSwizzle -What you mean is that you have gotten comfortable with compromise, that is what is now taken today for one's 'faith growing'
God is not glorified by the things that the world glories in. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - No, I have learned that grace, mercy and truth are above being religious, arrogance & piety by valuing man’s opinions & traditions. 1 Peter 4:11 – “If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in ALL things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” - MartyJSwizzle
@edwardpf123 - I have no problem living in reality. Again, you judge me as if I am delusional. Let’s stick to the facts & not get off into judging people, ok?
The “peace” that Paul is writing about in Gal 5 has nothing to do with music, the beat or even praise & worship. The “peace” Paul is talking about is the kind of peace that comes from the Holy Spirit that lives within us, that causes us to get along with others & to have an attitude of harmony among believers (Romans14:14-19). - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle -LOL! All of you thin-skinned guys start whining about being 'insulted'. If you are accepting rock music as being Christian, you aren't living in reality, you are rejecting it. The 'peace' that Paul is writing about is produced by the Holy Spirit, it is contentment, and it fits in with Christian music (Col.3:16), not with Rock which produces the same emotions that the 'secular' Rock does, frenzy, lust, anger, etc. - edwardpf123
@edwardpf123 - Wow, ok. Well, I think or conversation is over here. I think the personal judgments, mocking & cynicism have gone a little too far. Let me leave you with one final thought.
"It is impossible to judge anther person's motives. One cannot determine the heart in a person in a first-time encounter. Let the Scriptures, not your heritage, be your standard. Let love be your law and let mercy be your message." - MartyJSwizzle
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Thursday, January 27, 2011
Preeminence of Authority
Your perception, it’s not always the truth. Beliefs are not reality. What you hear from the mouths of men, is not the facts. Majority opinion does not dictate truth.
There is only one. There is no other.
Truth cannot be found at the bottom of a tea cup. Truth cannot be found in a crystal ball. Contacting the dead is useless for they know nothing. Dreams are deceiving and visions are vague.
Those who do not know the truth only share their perceptions. The unconverted only have opinions and nothing more. Are you inside or on the outside looking in? You can only see from your side.
It’s not reality. This is unstoppable.
If you are not in the middle of it all, you know nothing. Reality escapes you. It’s on the inside. Your eyes and ears deceive you.
Open your heart, renew your mind and close your eyes.
There is only one. There is no other.
Truth cannot be found at the bottom of a tea cup. Truth cannot be found in a crystal ball. Contacting the dead is useless for they know nothing. Dreams are deceiving and visions are vague.
Those who do not know the truth only share their perceptions. The unconverted only have opinions and nothing more. Are you inside or on the outside looking in? You can only see from your side.
It’s not reality. This is unstoppable.
If you are not in the middle of it all, you know nothing. Reality escapes you. It’s on the inside. Your eyes and ears deceive you.
Open your heart, renew your mind and close your eyes.
Wednesday, January 26, 2011
Solitary Blindness
I have not left you. How could I ever think of leaving you? I could never leave behind the one I have loved so much. I am still here. I am with you. I made a promise to stay. My word is good.
After all that I have given for you, safeguards my commitment to you.
Why would I leave my greatest creation, my prize possession? You are my child.
I am still here by your side. Throughout all the hard times and the struggles of life, I have carried you. You may have thought that I was gone but I never left. You were not looking for me.
When all the others in your life disowned you, I was there.
I was by your side. I have seen your hurts. I have felt your broken heart. I know your dreams because they came from me. I was there. I am here.
Behold my child, I remain at the door and knock. Open up and we can be one. I will be with you forever. Open your heart to me again. My promise is true and my love for you is strong. Nothing in heaven and on earth can separate us. We will be the same as one.
After all that I have given for you, safeguards my commitment to you.
Why would I leave my greatest creation, my prize possession? You are my child.
I am still here by your side. Throughout all the hard times and the struggles of life, I have carried you. You may have thought that I was gone but I never left. You were not looking for me.
When all the others in your life disowned you, I was there.
I was by your side. I have seen your hurts. I have felt your broken heart. I know your dreams because they came from me. I was there. I am here.
Behold my child, I remain at the door and knock. Open up and we can be one. I will be with you forever. Open your heart to me again. My promise is true and my love for you is strong. Nothing in heaven and on earth can separate us. We will be the same as one.
Monday, January 24, 2011
MartyJSwizzle vs. viridismonasteriense - Part 3 of 3
The following is from an online conversation that I had with an Atheist on Youtube.com. These are the comments that were under this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY6Dn0_hBOY
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
Part 1 of 3
Part 2 of 3
@viridismonasteriense - Is the Lord a God of Peace (Romans 15:33) or War (Exodus 15:3)? He is both and plenty more. These 2 characteristic are only 2 of God’s many appellations to help describe explain his nature. In Deut 33:27 He is God of the Beginning, God of Justice: (Isaiah 30:18), God of Forgiveness: (Neh. 9:17), God of Heights: (Micah 6:6), God Of The Heavens: (Psalm 136:26), God Of Knowledge: (1 Samuel 2:3), God Of Truth: (Psalm 31:6), and there are hundreds more. There is no contradiction. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle You can't be a pacifist and support war. You can't be a vegeterian and eat meat. You can't be a God of War and be a God of Peace. You can't be a murderer and an innocent. You can't be perfect and imperfect. You can't be invisible and pink at the same time. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. - @MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "No contradiction here. "
You failed to mention Mark 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
Compare that to:
Matthew 28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
So who did they tell?
Both Gospels can't be right. One of them must be wrong. And this is by far not the only example of where the Gospels directly contradict. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - You failed to mention the 2nd half of Mark 16:8 - “The women fled from the tomb, trembling and bewildered, and they said nothing to anyone because they were too frightened. Then they briefly reported all this to Peter and his companions. Afterward Jesus himself sent them out from east to west with the sacred and unfailing message of salvation that gives eternal life. Amen (NLT).” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "There were at least 3 angels present at the tomb."
If I have two books in my hands would you say there were three? Or one? You'd think the woman who saw the angels could count. Oh, hang on. They couldn't. They could barely write. They barely had a legal standing. So the entire foundation of Christianity is the word of a few hysterical illiterate emotionally unstable women from the Iron Age?
Crafting a narrative doesn't explain away the flaws of the Bible. - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle "Again, just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there."
But that doesn't mean they WERE there.
"they will not always be exact."
Then you admit it's not inerrant. It's made by humans and therefore flawed. You cannot trust it. Is this the best your God could do? The most important message of all and he sucks at basic communication? That's not befitting a 'perfect' God, nor an 'omnipotent' one. More a nonexistent one. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - No, that doesn't mean they WERE there. However, you can’t assume they WEREN’T there either. Since we really don’t know whether all or some of the women were there or not, we cannot safely assume without a shadow of doubt that there is a contradiction without knowing all the facts involved. Therefore, there is no contradiction. Do you even know what a contradiction is? I don’t think so. You keep taking things out of context & claiming it is a contradiction. That’s either deception or ignorance. - @MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - No, I don’t admit that the gospels are inerrant. What I mean is that since the gospels were written by 4 different people at 4 different times with 4 different sources, there are 4 versions of the same story but not every single, little, insignificant & exact detail is going to be the same in every version. Yes, all four gospels were inspired by God, written through men, who witnessed these events with their own eyes & from their own individual perspectives under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Thus, human intervention has a part in its variances. - @MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - The most important message of all and he sucks at basic communication? No, God doesn’t have a problem communicating His story. He had 4 versions of the same story written for you and you still didn’t get it!
The problem is that you do not have the ears to hear and the eyes to see. In other words, you do not understand and you are not spiritually prepared to hear these truths at this time. Therefore, this will be my last posting to you.
I would like to thank you for strengthening and confirming my faith & trust in Christ and His Word. Have a great day. - @MartyJSwizzle
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
Part 1 of 3
Part 2 of 3
@viridismonasteriense - Is the Lord a God of Peace (Romans 15:33) or War (Exodus 15:3)? He is both and plenty more. These 2 characteristic are only 2 of God’s many appellations to help describe explain his nature. In Deut 33:27 He is God of the Beginning, God of Justice: (Isaiah 30:18), God of Forgiveness: (Neh. 9:17), God of Heights: (Micah 6:6), God Of The Heavens: (Psalm 136:26), God Of Knowledge: (1 Samuel 2:3), God Of Truth: (Psalm 31:6), and there are hundreds more. There is no contradiction. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle You can't be a pacifist and support war. You can't be a vegeterian and eat meat. You can't be a God of War and be a God of Peace. You can't be a murderer and an innocent. You can't be perfect and imperfect. You can't be invisible and pink at the same time. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. - @MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "No contradiction here. "
You failed to mention Mark 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
Compare that to:
Matthew 28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
So who did they tell?
Both Gospels can't be right. One of them must be wrong. And this is by far not the only example of where the Gospels directly contradict. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - You failed to mention the 2nd half of Mark 16:8 - “The women fled from the tomb, trembling and bewildered, and they said nothing to anyone because they were too frightened. Then they briefly reported all this to Peter and his companions. Afterward Jesus himself sent them out from east to west with the sacred and unfailing message of salvation that gives eternal life. Amen (NLT).” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "There were at least 3 angels present at the tomb."
If I have two books in my hands would you say there were three? Or one? You'd think the woman who saw the angels could count. Oh, hang on. They couldn't. They could barely write. They barely had a legal standing. So the entire foundation of Christianity is the word of a few hysterical illiterate emotionally unstable women from the Iron Age?
Crafting a narrative doesn't explain away the flaws of the Bible. - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle "Again, just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there."
But that doesn't mean they WERE there.
"they will not always be exact."
Then you admit it's not inerrant. It's made by humans and therefore flawed. You cannot trust it. Is this the best your God could do? The most important message of all and he sucks at basic communication? That's not befitting a 'perfect' God, nor an 'omnipotent' one. More a nonexistent one. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - No, that doesn't mean they WERE there. However, you can’t assume they WEREN’T there either. Since we really don’t know whether all or some of the women were there or not, we cannot safely assume without a shadow of doubt that there is a contradiction without knowing all the facts involved. Therefore, there is no contradiction. Do you even know what a contradiction is? I don’t think so. You keep taking things out of context & claiming it is a contradiction. That’s either deception or ignorance. - @MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - No, I don’t admit that the gospels are inerrant. What I mean is that since the gospels were written by 4 different people at 4 different times with 4 different sources, there are 4 versions of the same story but not every single, little, insignificant & exact detail is going to be the same in every version. Yes, all four gospels were inspired by God, written through men, who witnessed these events with their own eyes & from their own individual perspectives under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Thus, human intervention has a part in its variances. - @MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - The most important message of all and he sucks at basic communication? No, God doesn’t have a problem communicating His story. He had 4 versions of the same story written for you and you still didn’t get it!
The problem is that you do not have the ears to hear and the eyes to see. In other words, you do not understand and you are not spiritually prepared to hear these truths at this time. Therefore, this will be my last posting to you.
I would like to thank you for strengthening and confirming my faith & trust in Christ and His Word. Have a great day. - @MartyJSwizzle
Labels:
atheism,
contradiction,
debate,
discussion,
gospels
Sunday, January 23, 2011
Lover of Horses
Ashamed is what we should be, for treating people that way. Yeah, we get angry and we are filled with great frustrations. We should love them because we were first loved by God.
Jesus demonstrated His love for us on a Roman cross, while we were yet sinners.
“I am so sorry” and “please forgive me” should be the words uttered from my tongue. Who can tame such a powerful thing?
Words can hurt.
Forgive me. I know that life is so short and we never know when we will die. One day we are here and the next we are dust.
So, let us not remain in these hostilities. You have my forgiveness and my greatest apologies. You need to hear this. You should know this.
Healing our hearts is our greatest need. I will never look back or live in the past. So, let us move forward in brotherly love. Forsaking ourselves and loving one another.
Let us remember who we are.
Jesus demonstrated His love for us on a Roman cross, while we were yet sinners.
“I am so sorry” and “please forgive me” should be the words uttered from my tongue. Who can tame such a powerful thing?
Words can hurt.
Forgive me. I know that life is so short and we never know when we will die. One day we are here and the next we are dust.
So, let us not remain in these hostilities. You have my forgiveness and my greatest apologies. You need to hear this. You should know this.
Healing our hearts is our greatest need. I will never look back or live in the past. So, let us move forward in brotherly love. Forsaking ourselves and loving one another.
Let us remember who we are.
Saturday, January 22, 2011
MartyJSwizzle vs. viridismonasteriense - Part 2 of 3
The following is from an online conversation that I had with an Atheist on Youtube.com. These are the comments that were under this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY6Dn0_hBOY
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
Part 1 of 3
I. The Flood
@MartyJSwizzle "Yes, I have heard of the word “genocide” and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis Flood and everything to do with the Jews, specifically the nation of Israel."
Here's the definition of genocide: 'The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.'
Now tell me again what God did. He globally slaughtered everyone he deemed evil or unworthy, even the children and the animals. - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle It's not omnicide because Noah and co survived. God let them live. How is this different from Hitler seeing the Jews as evil and systematically trying to destroy them but letting his 'chosen' people live?
"it is God’s judgment "
No, it's bad judgment. You really think there is a context or mitigating factor that could excuse total annihilation? Would Hitler have been excused of his crimes if the Jews had really been "evil"? Or if he had been an omnipotent creator deity? - MartyJSwizzl
@MartyJSwizzle " Sin and death is the natural law that is the result of disobedience against perfect righteousness"
If you think the God of mass-murder and slavery is a God of perfect righteousness I fear for you.
"God’s priorities are man & He proved it by saving Noah; righteousness over wickedness."
And did he prove it by saving Lot, who slept with his own daughters? Did he prove it with Moses who he ordered to kill thousands? Did he prove it when he accepted Jeptha's sacrifice? - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle "Remember, God saved all the kinds of animals aboard Noah’s ark."
Remember: God saved only a few of every kind. The rest were massacred. If I kill everyone in your family but left you alive, would you call that the act of a merciful being?
", the babies weren’t evil but these are animals without souls & not made in the image of God; thus replaceable."
Oh, animals don't have souls? Prove it. You're done. Tell me why I should give a damn about anything the Bible says. - viridismonasteriense
II. Repeat
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, I'm done.
All you want to do is argue about it. I told you the way it is; like it or leave it. Trying to explain everything that you don't like in the bible will take years and I don't have that much time to waste on someone who doesn't want to hear it but only wants to argue about every little insignificant detail that bothers them. The bible never changes, the gospel is always the same, God always wins.
@MartyJSwizzle "All you want to do is argue about it. I told you the way it is; like it or leave it."
Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. Actual proof and evidence does.
"The bible never changes, the gospel is always the same"
Somewhere right now there's a man translating and editing the Bible for a new generation, desperately trying to find a new word to substitute 'unicorn' with.
God always wins? Not when he's facing iron chariots he doesn't! - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Dear atheists, just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. Actual proof and evidence does. Unfortunately, we have the same very evidence, it's our conclusions based upon our perspectives that make us different.
Yes, somewhere another translation is being made. However, the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek text does not change. Therefore, the bible never changes, the gospel is always the same. Educate yourself.
@MartyJSwizzle Oh, you have evidence your God is real? Why didn't you say? Let's see some of it! You'd be the first.
Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true. The burden of proof lies on you to prove the positive claim.
And until it is proven the default position is non-belief.
"Therefore, the bible never changes"
Yes, and that's why, no matter how much you edit it or superimpose a postdicted narrative upon it, the gospels will always contradict each other. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - My faith is the evidence. Do you have faith in God? No, you do not believe because you are spiritually blind and have succumb to the lies of the world that are taught about God, the bible and Christ by His enemies. How can I expect any less from atheists? I don't. Show me where and what the contradictions are; I guarantee they can be explained and resolved. Dude, I've been doing this for many years and no one has stumped me yet.
MartyJSwizzle
III. Contradictions
@MartyJSwizzle "Show me where and what the contradictions are; I guarantee they can be explained and resolved. "
Then let me ask you: , what did they find and who did they tell?
Who approached the empty tomb?
Is the Lord a God of Peace (Romans 15:33) or War (Exodus 15:3)? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - In Matt 28:11, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb. Mark 16:1-2 Mary Magdelene, Mary mother of James & Salome approached the tomb. John 21:1 MM approached the tomb. In Lk 24:1 the “women” approached the tomb. This is NOT a contradiction.
Part 3 of 3
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
Part 1 of 3
I. The Flood
@MartyJSwizzle "Yes, I have heard of the word “genocide” and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis Flood and everything to do with the Jews, specifically the nation of Israel."
Here's the definition of genocide: 'The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.'
Now tell me again what God did. He globally slaughtered everyone he deemed evil or unworthy, even the children and the animals. - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle It's not omnicide because Noah and co survived. God let them live. How is this different from Hitler seeing the Jews as evil and systematically trying to destroy them but letting his 'chosen' people live?
"it is God’s judgment "
No, it's bad judgment. You really think there is a context or mitigating factor that could excuse total annihilation? Would Hitler have been excused of his crimes if the Jews had really been "evil"? Or if he had been an omnipotent creator deity? - MartyJSwizzl
@MartyJSwizzle " Sin and death is the natural law that is the result of disobedience against perfect righteousness"
If you think the God of mass-murder and slavery is a God of perfect righteousness I fear for you.
"God’s priorities are man & He proved it by saving Noah; righteousness over wickedness."
And did he prove it by saving Lot, who slept with his own daughters? Did he prove it with Moses who he ordered to kill thousands? Did he prove it when he accepted Jeptha's sacrifice? - viridismonasteriense
@MartyJSwizzle "Remember, God saved all the kinds of animals aboard Noah’s ark."
Remember: God saved only a few of every kind. The rest were massacred. If I kill everyone in your family but left you alive, would you call that the act of a merciful being?
", the babies weren’t evil but these are animals without souls & not made in the image of God; thus replaceable."
Oh, animals don't have souls? Prove it. You're done. Tell me why I should give a damn about anything the Bible says. - viridismonasteriense
II. Repeat
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, I'm done.
All you want to do is argue about it. I told you the way it is; like it or leave it. Trying to explain everything that you don't like in the bible will take years and I don't have that much time to waste on someone who doesn't want to hear it but only wants to argue about every little insignificant detail that bothers them. The bible never changes, the gospel is always the same, God always wins.
@MartyJSwizzle "All you want to do is argue about it. I told you the way it is; like it or leave it."
Just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. Actual proof and evidence does.
"The bible never changes, the gospel is always the same"
Somewhere right now there's a man translating and editing the Bible for a new generation, desperately trying to find a new word to substitute 'unicorn' with.
God always wins? Not when he's facing iron chariots he doesn't! - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Dear atheists, just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. Actual proof and evidence does. Unfortunately, we have the same very evidence, it's our conclusions based upon our perspectives that make us different.
Yes, somewhere another translation is being made. However, the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek text does not change. Therefore, the bible never changes, the gospel is always the same. Educate yourself.
@MartyJSwizzle Oh, you have evidence your God is real? Why didn't you say? Let's see some of it! You'd be the first.
Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true. The burden of proof lies on you to prove the positive claim.
And until it is proven the default position is non-belief.
"Therefore, the bible never changes"
Yes, and that's why, no matter how much you edit it or superimpose a postdicted narrative upon it, the gospels will always contradict each other. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - My faith is the evidence. Do you have faith in God? No, you do not believe because you are spiritually blind and have succumb to the lies of the world that are taught about God, the bible and Christ by His enemies. How can I expect any less from atheists? I don't. Show me where and what the contradictions are; I guarantee they can be explained and resolved. Dude, I've been doing this for many years and no one has stumped me yet.
MartyJSwizzle
III. Contradictions
@MartyJSwizzle "Show me where and what the contradictions are; I guarantee they can be explained and resolved. "
Then let me ask you: , what did they find and who did they tell?
Who approached the empty tomb?
Is the Lord a God of Peace (Romans 15:33) or War (Exodus 15:3)? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - In Matt 28:11, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb. Mark 16:1-2 Mary Magdelene, Mary mother of James & Salome approached the tomb. John 21:1 MM approached the tomb. In Lk 24:1 the “women” approached the tomb. This is NOT a contradiction.
@viridismonasteriense - Just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there. It’s possible that one author didn’t mention someone because it wasn’t of importance or it was irrelevant. If John had said that MM approached “alone” then there would be a contradiction. If Matt had mentioned that MM & Mary went “alone” then it would be a contradiction. There is no contradiction here.
What did “they” find? They found many things. What specifically are you referring too?
In Matt 28:2 an angel of the Lord had rolled aside the stone & sat on it. Mark 16:5-6, an angel was inside the tomb. Lk 24:4 Two angels were inside the tomb. John 20:1 MM found the tomb rolled aside. After Peter came to the tomb, the same two angels that were inside spoke to her again.
Again, just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there. It’s possible that one author didn’t mention someone because it wasn’t of importance or it was irrelevant. You have to remember, all 4 gospels are from 4 perspectives & sources; they will not always be exact. If Matt 28:2 had said that there was “only” one angel, it would be a contradiction. There were at least 3 angels present at the tomb.
Who did they tell? In John 20:2-3 the women told Peter and another disciple. Peter ran to the tomb. Lk 24:9-10 the women told the disciples (apostles), Peter ran to the tomb. Mk 16:7 the women went and told disciples & Peter. Matt 28:8 the women went and told the disciples. If any gospel had specifically said that the women went and told Peter “alone” there would be a contradiction. If the women had told the disciples “alone;” that would include Peter as well. There is no contradiction here.
Part 3 of 3
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Thursday, January 20, 2011
Natural Born Zombie
A zombie I was born. Among the living dead is where I roam everyday. I crave only one thing, flesh! Uncontrollable I am, with an insatiable lust for flesh. I’m totally mad with animalistic instincts. I live only to satisfy my carnal nature.
I was helpless. I was hopeless. I was sitting back and watching my body do things that I didn’t want to do. Eating, dying, and craving flesh.
Live to die.
I was driven by passions beyond my control. My hunger was never satisfied. I only wanted more, never being fulfilled. I was empty inside. I was rotting away, dying everyday.
Whose life am I leading anyway? Such anger I had. Bound with frustration, such hatred. I could not stop this. No control.
I was helpless. I was hopeless. I was sitting back and watching my body do things that I didn’t want to do. Eating, dying, and craving flesh.
Live to die.
On a dark night among the crowds of the dead, the zombie slayer came and he killed me. To my surprise, he brought me back and gave his life to me. It was an exchange. I was reborn as a new man. I am alive forever now.
Born twice, die once. Born once, die twice. Die to live.
I was helpless. I was hopeless. I was sitting back and watching my body do things that I didn’t want to do. Eating, dying, and craving flesh.
Live to die.
I was driven by passions beyond my control. My hunger was never satisfied. I only wanted more, never being fulfilled. I was empty inside. I was rotting away, dying everyday.
Whose life am I leading anyway? Such anger I had. Bound with frustration, such hatred. I could not stop this. No control.
I was helpless. I was hopeless. I was sitting back and watching my body do things that I didn’t want to do. Eating, dying, and craving flesh.
Live to die.
On a dark night among the crowds of the dead, the zombie slayer came and he killed me. To my surprise, he brought me back and gave his life to me. It was an exchange. I was reborn as a new man. I am alive forever now.
Born twice, die once. Born once, die twice. Die to live.
Wednesday, January 19, 2011
It’s Not About Me And It’s Not About You.
It's not about the music regardless of the type.
It's only a medium don’t buy into the hype.
It's not about the bands regardless of how they appear.
It's just a ministry so please do not fear.
It's not about the money regardless of the amount.
It's only momentary and I have no doubt.
It's not about fame regardless of the fun.
It’s the recognition that’s overrated as soon as it begins, it’s done.
It’s not about the limo, cash or cell phone.
It’s only about one thing and one thing alone.
It’s not about me and it’s not about you.
It's only about one thing and I’ll give you the clue.
It's about knowing Jesus Christ through an intimate relationship.
It’s not about me and it’s not about you. It’s all about Him.
It's only a medium don’t buy into the hype.
It's not about the bands regardless of how they appear.
It's just a ministry so please do not fear.
It's not about the money regardless of the amount.
It's only momentary and I have no doubt.
It's not about fame regardless of the fun.
It’s the recognition that’s overrated as soon as it begins, it’s done.
It’s not about the limo, cash or cell phone.
It’s only about one thing and one thing alone.
It’s not about me and it’s not about you.
It's only about one thing and I’ll give you the clue.
It's about knowing Jesus Christ through an intimate relationship.
It’s not about me and it’s not about you. It’s all about Him.
Tuesday, January 18, 2011
MartyJSwizzle vs. viridismonasteriense - Part 1 of 3
The following is from an online conversation that I had with an Atheist on Youtube.com. These are the comments that were under this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY6Dn0_hBOY
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
(Most of the responses on this discussion from viridismonasteriense are sourced from my replies to CodaCola, which was another Atheist that I was discussing things with at the time)
I am going to list his post, then afterward, my reply:
I. The Flood
@MartyJSwizzle "Did you realize that God doesn't make mistakes."
Than why did God flood the Earth? Genesis 6:6 "The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth" So he made humans knowing beforehand they would eat from the tree he placed there and he knew beforehand that he would have to drown the lot of them anyway and start over.
If it's not God correcting his mistake than it's God planning the vicious murder of billions of lifeforms for creating them to break rules he made. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - When Gen 6:6 says that God “regretted” making man; it doesn’t mean that God changed His mind or realized He made a mistake. It means that God was heart-broken and sad that man had gone down this path of corruption. Gen 6:9 says that Noah was the ONLY blameless (righteous) person on earth. Gen 6:11 says that the earth was “filled” with violence and all the earth had become “corrupt.” Gen 6:12 says that all were corrupt on the earth. Gen 6:13 says that all were corrupt. Mankind had lost his direction. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - The exact reason that God flooded the earth is listed in Gen 6:5 - "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
That means, EVERYONE was CONTINUALLY evil, all the time, day and night; probably participating in senseless murders, multiple rapes, sex group orgies, multiple robberies, many wars, useless killings, animals were probably extremely carnivorous, etc. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "The exact reason that God flooded the earth is listed in Gen 6:5 "
Did God not know in advance that mankind would descend down this path? Then he is not 'omniscient'. Could he not turn them away from that path without the need for genocide and slaughter? Then he is not 'omnipotent'. Did he prefer to kill them than to save them? Then he is not 'omnibenevolent'.
God made human nature and then punished humans for following their nature. Are curiosity and naivity a sin? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Are you a mistake? No, God did not make a mistake in creating man. Adam (man) made the mistake of disobeying God. It's not that God was correcting his mistake, it's God correcting man's mistake. God was not murdering man, he was saving man from themselves. They were going to destroy themselves, if God had not stepped in to save them! In order to save man, He had to rid the evil from the face of the earth.
What "rules" are you referring too? - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "God was not murdering man, he was saving man from themselves. They were going to destroy themselves, if God had not stepped in to save them! In order to save man, He had to rid the evil from the face of the earth."
Ever heard of GENOCIDE? You've just described it's very definition. A man called Adolf Hitler wanted to rid evil of the face of the Earth and he was systematically eradicating it with the best technology of his time, yet you call *him* a monster and God great. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, I have heard of the word “genocide” and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis Flood and everything to do with the Jews, specifically the nation of Israel. The word "genocide" did even exist before 1944. You’re taking the situation out of context. In this particular Genesis story, there is no “genocide” but instead it is best referred to as “omnicide,” for the lack of a better definition. However, since God is not bound to man’s definitions & 8 humans survived, it is God’s judgment, and not “omnicide.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - Animals were probably carnivorous? You're making a lot of assumptions. What about all the human babies in the city? What about all the animal babies? Were they evil? And don't tell me there weren't any. If you're going to assume all those animals were carnivorous, including the giraffe, I'm going to assume they had babies, puppies, kittens. Who all died. God killed them all. What an awesome God, not. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - As far as animals are concerned, the bible clearly explains that all animals were herbivores at the beginning of creation and after sin & death came into the world some began to hunt and scavenge one another (obviously, giraffes stayed herbivores). No, the babies weren’t evil but these are animals without souls & not made in the image of God; thus replaceable. It’s unfortunate, but the Flood was God’s way of judgment against all humanity, including everything on the earth. Remember, God saved all the kinds of animals aboard Noah’s ark so they would survive as well. - MartyJSwizzle
II. Original Sin
@MartyJSwizzle "Adam (man) made the mistake of disobeying God."
So all of mankind is punished because they ate some fruit, whilst Cain murdered his own brother and got away with a tribe of his own. That should tell you where God's priorities lie. Obedience over humanism. As long as you worship God you can get away with everything. Especially since all of your sins have been taken by Christ.
Original sin is a horrific concept worthy of such a malevolent entity that is Yahwe of the OT.- viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense- No, mankind was not punished because Adam ate a fruit. When Adam disobeyed God, sin came into the world (the whole universe and everything we can know and see). Sin and death is the natural law that is the result of disobedience against perfect righteousness. Cain murdered Able as a result of sin in the world caused by jealousy and pride. God’s priorities are man & He proved it by saving Noah; righteousness over wickedness. - MartyJSwizzle
III. Judgment
@MartyJSwizzle - Useless, senseless murders? Like the deaths of children, women and cattle? Wars? Like the wars God ordered and spearheaded? Robberies? Like the robberies God ordered his chosen tribe to do? Like the colt Jesus stole from the city? Like the gold stolen from the slaughtered cities that was kept for God and God alone? Rape? Like the non-consensual impregnation of the virgin Mary? And sex? Why is sex, an act of love, evil when all participants want it? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - You cannot compare God’s judgment against all the earth and against certain tribes or nations with children, cattle and women; there are reasons and context that makes the differences and each situation needs to be discerned and reasoned with on an individual basis. God headed up wars against other nations because they defied God’s people, the Israelites. Again, for certain reasons based upon individual circumstances. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - Jesus never stole a colt from anyone. “The case of Jesus telling His disciples to go locate the donkey and colt does not prove thievery, any more than Jesus’ disciples inquiring about and occupying an “upper room” makes them trespassers (cf. Mark 14:13-15). When sending His two disciples to get the requested animals, Jesus told them exactly where to go and what to say, as if He already knew the circumstances under which the donkey and colt were available. Jesus may very well have prearranged for the use of the donkeys.” ~ http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/518 - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - Mary was not raped against her will. In Luke 1:38, Mary gives permission for the Holy Spirit to impregnate her. Besides, rape is not necessarily a physical act; rape can also be a mental act as well. Sex, according to God’s view, is supposed to be between one man and one woman and it is a union between the two who are already one by marriage. Casual, unmarried sex between multiple partners of same sex or not, is a sin and as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, is considered wickedness. - MartyJSwizzle
IV. Blaming God
@MartyJSwizzle God painted the picture. So don't blame the painting, blame the painter.
Gen 6:5 does not change the situation. Gen 6:6 straight after that tells of God regretting having created all humans on the earth, realizing he shouldn't have. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - God did not paint the picture. God created the frame, raw paint, canvas and brush out of nothing, brought in into existence by His own power and gave it all to mankind. Mankind painted the picture that was offensive to God. God destroyed the painting and saved some paint so that man could start a new painting. Gen 6:5 changes everything because God is God and His judgment is right. Does not the creator of all things have the right to judge His own creation? - MartyJSwizzle
V. Omniprescence
@MartyJSwizzle - Was God not present, did God not see Adam and Eve eat from the fruit of all knowledge? Then he is not omnipresent. Why call him God?
As this video indicates, God purposely tempted his own children by planting the tree and then letting the snake persuade Eve to eat the fruit. He made human nature. He kinew the future. It's like a parent telling or letting a pedophile trick their children and the children are then punished for being created void of distrust. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, God is omnipresent. Yes, He saw everything that was going on in the Garden of Eden. However, God is not going to step in every time we make a stupid mistake. He will help to repair the mistake (by sending Christ) and come down Himself and do it for us (by God becoming Christ the man). God wants us to learn from our mistakes and have freewill to make choices. If we screw up, He will help us to overcome. If we do something dumb, He will help us through it. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - God is a gentleman and never forces anyone to do anything that they do not want to do. If you are God’s enemy, then beware. God is in charge, He owns the world and universe in it, He has free reign on what He wants to do. You should be thankful that He hasn’t judged you yet. As a lesson in respect for God, judgment was the OT solution. However, because of Christ, judgment is now not until the end of all things and only mercy, unconditional love and forgiveness remains. God is God and you are not, so get that through your arrogant, hard shell of ignorance. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - God made human nature and then punished humans for following their nature. Are curiosity and naivity a sin? No, God made man in His image. Man had freedom, power, choices and individuality. Man decided to go his own way and think for himself as if he knew better than God (like many atheists that I know). Thus, Adam and Eve decided for themselves and were fooled into believing a lie that God is stupid and a liar (like many atheists I know). Thus, mankind put on the nature of sin and death that separated them from God (Gen 2:17). - MartyJSwizzle
VI. Conclusion
@viridismonasteriense - Conclusion, I bring good news! Jesus (Yeshua), the Christ has removed the curse and shame of sin and given the power to overcome the world to His people by one simple method. That is by having faith (belief) in who Christ is and that He died on the cross, was buried for 3 days and rose again to life on the 3rd day. If you simply believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be, then you will be saved from God’s future eternal judgment of all of humanity from the beginning to the end of time. Take it or leave it; it’s your choice. - MartyJSwizzle
Part 2 of 3
Part 3 of 3
MartyJSwizzle = Christian
viridismonasteriense = Atheist
(Most of the responses on this discussion from viridismonasteriense are sourced from my replies to CodaCola, which was another Atheist that I was discussing things with at the time)
I am going to list his post, then afterward, my reply:
I. The Flood
@MartyJSwizzle "Did you realize that God doesn't make mistakes."
Than why did God flood the Earth? Genesis 6:6 "The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth" So he made humans knowing beforehand they would eat from the tree he placed there and he knew beforehand that he would have to drown the lot of them anyway and start over.
If it's not God correcting his mistake than it's God planning the vicious murder of billions of lifeforms for creating them to break rules he made. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - When Gen 6:6 says that God “regretted” making man; it doesn’t mean that God changed His mind or realized He made a mistake. It means that God was heart-broken and sad that man had gone down this path of corruption. Gen 6:9 says that Noah was the ONLY blameless (righteous) person on earth. Gen 6:11 says that the earth was “filled” with violence and all the earth had become “corrupt.” Gen 6:12 says that all were corrupt on the earth. Gen 6:13 says that all were corrupt. Mankind had lost his direction. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - The exact reason that God flooded the earth is listed in Gen 6:5 - "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
That means, EVERYONE was CONTINUALLY evil, all the time, day and night; probably participating in senseless murders, multiple rapes, sex group orgies, multiple robberies, many wars, useless killings, animals were probably extremely carnivorous, etc. - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "The exact reason that God flooded the earth is listed in Gen 6:5 "
Did God not know in advance that mankind would descend down this path? Then he is not 'omniscient'. Could he not turn them away from that path without the need for genocide and slaughter? Then he is not 'omnipotent'. Did he prefer to kill them than to save them? Then he is not 'omnibenevolent'.
God made human nature and then punished humans for following their nature. Are curiosity and naivity a sin? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Are you a mistake? No, God did not make a mistake in creating man. Adam (man) made the mistake of disobeying God. It's not that God was correcting his mistake, it's God correcting man's mistake. God was not murdering man, he was saving man from themselves. They were going to destroy themselves, if God had not stepped in to save them! In order to save man, He had to rid the evil from the face of the earth.
What "rules" are you referring too? - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle "God was not murdering man, he was saving man from themselves. They were going to destroy themselves, if God had not stepped in to save them! In order to save man, He had to rid the evil from the face of the earth."
Ever heard of GENOCIDE? You've just described it's very definition. A man called Adolf Hitler wanted to rid evil of the face of the Earth and he was systematically eradicating it with the best technology of his time, yet you call *him* a monster and God great. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, I have heard of the word “genocide” and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Genesis Flood and everything to do with the Jews, specifically the nation of Israel. The word "genocide" did even exist before 1944. You’re taking the situation out of context. In this particular Genesis story, there is no “genocide” but instead it is best referred to as “omnicide,” for the lack of a better definition. However, since God is not bound to man’s definitions & 8 humans survived, it is God’s judgment, and not “omnicide.” - MartyJSwizzle
@MartyJSwizzle - Animals were probably carnivorous? You're making a lot of assumptions. What about all the human babies in the city? What about all the animal babies? Were they evil? And don't tell me there weren't any. If you're going to assume all those animals were carnivorous, including the giraffe, I'm going to assume they had babies, puppies, kittens. Who all died. God killed them all. What an awesome God, not. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - As far as animals are concerned, the bible clearly explains that all animals were herbivores at the beginning of creation and after sin & death came into the world some began to hunt and scavenge one another (obviously, giraffes stayed herbivores). No, the babies weren’t evil but these are animals without souls & not made in the image of God; thus replaceable. It’s unfortunate, but the Flood was God’s way of judgment against all humanity, including everything on the earth. Remember, God saved all the kinds of animals aboard Noah’s ark so they would survive as well. - MartyJSwizzle
II. Original Sin
@MartyJSwizzle "Adam (man) made the mistake of disobeying God."
So all of mankind is punished because they ate some fruit, whilst Cain murdered his own brother and got away with a tribe of his own. That should tell you where God's priorities lie. Obedience over humanism. As long as you worship God you can get away with everything. Especially since all of your sins have been taken by Christ.
Original sin is a horrific concept worthy of such a malevolent entity that is Yahwe of the OT.- viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense- No, mankind was not punished because Adam ate a fruit. When Adam disobeyed God, sin came into the world (the whole universe and everything we can know and see). Sin and death is the natural law that is the result of disobedience against perfect righteousness. Cain murdered Able as a result of sin in the world caused by jealousy and pride. God’s priorities are man & He proved it by saving Noah; righteousness over wickedness. - MartyJSwizzle
III. Judgment
@MartyJSwizzle - Useless, senseless murders? Like the deaths of children, women and cattle? Wars? Like the wars God ordered and spearheaded? Robberies? Like the robberies God ordered his chosen tribe to do? Like the colt Jesus stole from the city? Like the gold stolen from the slaughtered cities that was kept for God and God alone? Rape? Like the non-consensual impregnation of the virgin Mary? And sex? Why is sex, an act of love, evil when all participants want it? - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - You cannot compare God’s judgment against all the earth and against certain tribes or nations with children, cattle and women; there are reasons and context that makes the differences and each situation needs to be discerned and reasoned with on an individual basis. God headed up wars against other nations because they defied God’s people, the Israelites. Again, for certain reasons based upon individual circumstances. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - Jesus never stole a colt from anyone. “The case of Jesus telling His disciples to go locate the donkey and colt does not prove thievery, any more than Jesus’ disciples inquiring about and occupying an “upper room” makes them trespassers (cf. Mark 14:13-15). When sending His two disciples to get the requested animals, Jesus told them exactly where to go and what to say, as if He already knew the circumstances under which the donkey and colt were available. Jesus may very well have prearranged for the use of the donkeys.” ~ http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/518 - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - Mary was not raped against her will. In Luke 1:38, Mary gives permission for the Holy Spirit to impregnate her. Besides, rape is not necessarily a physical act; rape can also be a mental act as well. Sex, according to God’s view, is supposed to be between one man and one woman and it is a union between the two who are already one by marriage. Casual, unmarried sex between multiple partners of same sex or not, is a sin and as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, is considered wickedness. - MartyJSwizzle
IV. Blaming God
@MartyJSwizzle God painted the picture. So don't blame the painting, blame the painter.
Gen 6:5 does not change the situation. Gen 6:6 straight after that tells of God regretting having created all humans on the earth, realizing he shouldn't have. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - God did not paint the picture. God created the frame, raw paint, canvas and brush out of nothing, brought in into existence by His own power and gave it all to mankind. Mankind painted the picture that was offensive to God. God destroyed the painting and saved some paint so that man could start a new painting. Gen 6:5 changes everything because God is God and His judgment is right. Does not the creator of all things have the right to judge His own creation? - MartyJSwizzle
V. Omniprescence
@MartyJSwizzle - Was God not present, did God not see Adam and Eve eat from the fruit of all knowledge? Then he is not omnipresent. Why call him God?
As this video indicates, God purposely tempted his own children by planting the tree and then letting the snake persuade Eve to eat the fruit. He made human nature. He kinew the future. It's like a parent telling or letting a pedophile trick their children and the children are then punished for being created void of distrust. - viridismonasteriense
@viridismonasteriense - Yes, God is omnipresent. Yes, He saw everything that was going on in the Garden of Eden. However, God is not going to step in every time we make a stupid mistake. He will help to repair the mistake (by sending Christ) and come down Himself and do it for us (by God becoming Christ the man). God wants us to learn from our mistakes and have freewill to make choices. If we screw up, He will help us to overcome. If we do something dumb, He will help us through it. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - God is a gentleman and never forces anyone to do anything that they do not want to do. If you are God’s enemy, then beware. God is in charge, He owns the world and universe in it, He has free reign on what He wants to do. You should be thankful that He hasn’t judged you yet. As a lesson in respect for God, judgment was the OT solution. However, because of Christ, judgment is now not until the end of all things and only mercy, unconditional love and forgiveness remains. God is God and you are not, so get that through your arrogant, hard shell of ignorance. - MartyJSwizzle
@viridismonasteriense - God made human nature and then punished humans for following their nature. Are curiosity and naivity a sin? No, God made man in His image. Man had freedom, power, choices and individuality. Man decided to go his own way and think for himself as if he knew better than God (like many atheists that I know). Thus, Adam and Eve decided for themselves and were fooled into believing a lie that God is stupid and a liar (like many atheists I know). Thus, mankind put on the nature of sin and death that separated them from God (Gen 2:17). - MartyJSwizzle
VI. Conclusion
@viridismonasteriense - Conclusion, I bring good news! Jesus (Yeshua), the Christ has removed the curse and shame of sin and given the power to overcome the world to His people by one simple method. That is by having faith (belief) in who Christ is and that He died on the cross, was buried for 3 days and rose again to life on the 3rd day. If you simply believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be, then you will be saved from God’s future eternal judgment of all of humanity from the beginning to the end of time. Take it or leave it; it’s your choice. - MartyJSwizzle
Part 2 of 3
Part 3 of 3
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Monday, January 17, 2011
Who Approached the Empty Tomb of Christ?
1. Matt 28:11 - Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb.
2. Mark 16:1,2 - Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James & Salome approached the tomb.
3. John 21:1 - Mary Magdalene approached the tomb.
4. Luke 24:1 - The “women” approached the tomb.
Is this a contradiction?
No, this is NOT a contradiction. Why?
Just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there. It’s possible that one author didn’t mention someone because it wasn’t of importance or it was irrelevant.
We have to remember that all four gospels were written by four different authors and had at least four different sources of information. Not all the information will be exact and specific. There are many perspectives we must take into consideration.
If John had said that Mary Magdalene approached “alone,” then there would be a contradiction. If Matthew had mentioned that Mary Magdalene & Mary went “alone,” then it would be a contradiction.
There is no contradiction here.
2. Mark 16:1,2 - Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James & Salome approached the tomb.
3. John 21:1 - Mary Magdalene approached the tomb.
4. Luke 24:1 - The “women” approached the tomb.
Is this a contradiction?
No, this is NOT a contradiction. Why?
Just because a person is not mentioned in one version does not mean that they weren’t there. It’s possible that one author didn’t mention someone because it wasn’t of importance or it was irrelevant.
We have to remember that all four gospels were written by four different authors and had at least four different sources of information. Not all the information will be exact and specific. There are many perspectives we must take into consideration.
If John had said that Mary Magdalene approached “alone,” then there would be a contradiction. If Matthew had mentioned that Mary Magdalene & Mary went “alone,” then it would be a contradiction.
There is no contradiction here.
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Saturday, January 15, 2011
Hell’s Best Kept Secret
Can you do it? Have you done it? Can you follow all ten commands? Did you break them? Do you know them? Don’t lie to me now, Sinner.
This is the standard in which we must obtain. If you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all. How can anyone be saved? If it were not for His law, I would not be guilty. But, now I know. Lord, give me your truth.
We have all fallen short. All of us are sinners. None are worthy. Surely I tell you that Jesus didn’t come to save the pious and proud but the lost, the sinner with a broken heart who cries out for forgiveness.
I am Broken.
God’s mercy and His grace is so much greater than any sin you can imagine. You can be free. You can be released from your prison of shame. Break the chains of your burdens in Jesus name. By His name alone in which the world is terrified, you will be set free. Freedom!
This is the standard in which we must obtain. If you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all. How can anyone be saved? If it were not for His law, I would not be guilty. But, now I know. Lord, give me your truth.
We have all fallen short. All of us are sinners. None are worthy. Surely I tell you that Jesus didn’t come to save the pious and proud but the lost, the sinner with a broken heart who cries out for forgiveness.
I am Broken.
God’s mercy and His grace is so much greater than any sin you can imagine. You can be free. You can be released from your prison of shame. Break the chains of your burdens in Jesus name. By His name alone in which the world is terrified, you will be set free. Freedom!
Thursday, January 13, 2011
He is Here
When I see the barren cross, I say to myself, He was there. When I think of the empty tomb, I say to myself, He was there. When I read the stories found in the word, I say to myself, He was there with me. He was there.
He was there before the world began. He was there. He was there.
When you caught yourself cutting for the last time, He was there. When you cried out for him in that car wreck, He was there. When you were finally giving up on life and just before you pulled the trigger, He was there. He is here.
He is here. Jesus is here.
(Inspired by For Today)
He was there before the world began. He was there. He was there.
When you caught yourself cutting for the last time, He was there. When you cried out for him in that car wreck, He was there. When you were finally giving up on life and just before you pulled the trigger, He was there. He is here.
He is here. Jesus is here.
(Inspired by For Today)
Wednesday, January 12, 2011
Fix Your Eyes
Fix your eyes on Christ. Put your faith in Him. Do not rely on your own strengths. Do not look at your limitations. Just look at the abundant supply of power that comes from God.
Fix your eyes on Christ. See Jesus walking on the water. Step out and walk with Him. Do not look around you. Do not become distracted or you will fall.
Do not listen to that devil. He tells you to look at the storms of life. Look at the waves and the rushing wind. You will sink into the deep.
Fix your eyes on Christ. See Jesus walking on the water. Step out and walk with Him. Do not look around you. Do not become distracted or you will fall.
Just believe.
He is greater than any sin. He is quick to forgive. Only confess and receive Him.
Fix your eyes on Christ.
Fix your eyes on Christ. See Jesus walking on the water. Step out and walk with Him. Do not look around you. Do not become distracted or you will fall.
Do not listen to that devil. He tells you to look at the storms of life. Look at the waves and the rushing wind. You will sink into the deep.
Fix your eyes on Christ. See Jesus walking on the water. Step out and walk with Him. Do not look around you. Do not become distracted or you will fall.
Just believe.
He is greater than any sin. He is quick to forgive. Only confess and receive Him.
Fix your eyes on Christ.
Monday, January 10, 2011
The Troll King
Here he comes waltzing in here as if this was his kingdom. He trolls about wielding his war hammer forged from insults, caring not that he injures or wounds.
The lust for power is his ultimate goal. He wants it all for himself. The king is the center of his own world.
Leaving wrecked lives and destroyed families behind him, he stumbles forward aimlessly to devour another heart and soul.
This baby king is ignorant of his own actions. Blinded and foolish, he wanders about without knowing the root cause of his ruthless behavior.
There is no penitence for him.
His eyes are on me. He comes for me and strikes at my heart. From his mouth, he crushes me with his great two-edged sword. Blow after blow, I am speechless and indignant.
Will I recover? Will I ever heal? How I wished he would have just killed me instead. He leaves me bleeding and licking my wound.
I wrote this shortly after my brother and I had an ugly and unresolved discussion. He had some things he wanted to tell me and the things he accused me of and the things he said against my family and I were insulting and unnecessarily hateful, bitter and unwarranted.
This was my way of coping with this situation since resolution is probably out of the question, at least for now.
Please remember to show the unconditional forgiveness and love of Christ to anyone who curses you, including biological family members.
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Sunday, January 9, 2011
Is The Creation Story Absurd?
My comment made about this video that was created by NonStampCollector on youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY6Dn0_hBOY)
“What's the point of this video? Is it to mock the creation story or is it because NonstampCollector is bored and doesn't have a life? Just curious.” - MartyJSwizzle
“He’s showing you how absurd "the creation story" is, as if it wasn't already painfully obvious.
Why did god make a tree of knowledge? Why did he put a snake there to tempt Adam and Eve? Doesn't god already know everything, including what would happen if he put the snake in the garden with the stupid humans?” - CodaCola
“The only thing that's obvious is that NonstampCollector is utterly bored to death and has to spend endless hours mocking the bible and Christianity because he doesn't have a life with any purpose.
I don't know the exact reason why God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, it may be because without the option of choice, there is no real love. God never put a snake in the Garden. The serpent was in the Garden, the bible doesn't say how he was placed there.
Yes, God does know everything and He knew exactly what would happen with the serpent in the Garden. God did not tempt Adam and Eve and He certainly doesn't use the devil, evil or a serpent to tempt people into disobeying God. The serpent was not a snake until after He was cursed by God. This is another reason why people who aren't Christians should stop reading what they cannot possibly understand.” – MartyJSwizzle
“So you realize that the christian god supposedly puts people on earth knowing full well all the details of their lives before they even start, yet you still think the concept of eternal judgment actually makes sense? Why? You realize that if god put your soul in a different body, you'd be living a completely different life, holding completely different beliefs than the ones you do now, right?” - CodaCola
“How does simply knowing the outcome of an event, change that event? It doesn't. Therefore, just because God knows beforehand what decisions you will make does not change the fact that you still had the choices to make them. Thus, your point is moot.
Did you realize that God doesn't make mistakes“ - MartyJSwizzle
So far, Codacola has not responded.
“What's the point of this video? Is it to mock the creation story or is it because NonstampCollector is bored and doesn't have a life? Just curious.” - MartyJSwizzle
“He’s showing you how absurd "the creation story" is, as if it wasn't already painfully obvious.
Why did god make a tree of knowledge? Why did he put a snake there to tempt Adam and Eve? Doesn't god already know everything, including what would happen if he put the snake in the garden with the stupid humans?” - CodaCola
“The only thing that's obvious is that NonstampCollector is utterly bored to death and has to spend endless hours mocking the bible and Christianity because he doesn't have a life with any purpose.
I don't know the exact reason why God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, it may be because without the option of choice, there is no real love. God never put a snake in the Garden. The serpent was in the Garden, the bible doesn't say how he was placed there.
Yes, God does know everything and He knew exactly what would happen with the serpent in the Garden. God did not tempt Adam and Eve and He certainly doesn't use the devil, evil or a serpent to tempt people into disobeying God. The serpent was not a snake until after He was cursed by God. This is another reason why people who aren't Christians should stop reading what they cannot possibly understand.” – MartyJSwizzle
“So you realize that the christian god supposedly puts people on earth knowing full well all the details of their lives before they even start, yet you still think the concept of eternal judgment actually makes sense? Why? You realize that if god put your soul in a different body, you'd be living a completely different life, holding completely different beliefs than the ones you do now, right?” - CodaCola
“How does simply knowing the outcome of an event, change that event? It doesn't. Therefore, just because God knows beforehand what decisions you will make does not change the fact that you still had the choices to make them. Thus, your point is moot.
Did you realize that God doesn't make mistakes“ - MartyJSwizzle
So far, Codacola has not responded.
Thursday, January 6, 2011
Cul-de-sac
A brick wall stands before me. It is stone cold, immovable. I can’t consider my thoughts anymore. I have no more ideas to display. I’m at a dead end; a dead end.
Knock it down.
Crush the barricade before me, Lord. Give me your heart and your thoughts. Fill me with your love and with your will. Let my words be your words, Lord. Speak to me.
Bring it down and remove the scales in my eyes.
Lord, show me the way.
Let it collapse and remove it from my sight. Weaken the mortar. Break down the barrier in my dreams and in my visions, Lord. Allow the unseen stone to crumble facing me.
Crush the barricade before me, Lord. Give me your heart and your thoughts. Fill me with your love and with your will. Let my words be your words, Lord. Speak to me.
I am in the new dynasty. I’m in the new army now. We are the chosen ones; the burning ones, igniting the world. Allow me to prophesy in your holy name; in your name alone.
Break away and carry me through.
Knock it down.
Crush the barricade before me, Lord. Give me your heart and your thoughts. Fill me with your love and with your will. Let my words be your words, Lord. Speak to me.
Bring it down and remove the scales in my eyes.
Lord, show me the way.
Let it collapse and remove it from my sight. Weaken the mortar. Break down the barrier in my dreams and in my visions, Lord. Allow the unseen stone to crumble facing me.
Crush the barricade before me, Lord. Give me your heart and your thoughts. Fill me with your love and with your will. Let my words be your words, Lord. Speak to me.
I am in the new dynasty. I’m in the new army now. We are the chosen ones; the burning ones, igniting the world. Allow me to prophesy in your holy name; in your name alone.
Break away and carry me through.
Tuesday, January 4, 2011
Amber Choices in the Glades of Glory
I wasn’t looking for you, but you found me anyway. I thought I was fine without you, but you called my name. I was living life miserably on my own, until you came into my life. Why did you do it? Why did you come for me?
I wanted you but I didn’t know it. I desired you but I ignored you. No one told me that things would be this way. How could I have known? How could I have known?
I wanted to change the way I am, but not like this I thought. I knew you were right on, but I rejected you anyway. I was doing my own thing but you came in and interrupted me. Why was I such a fool? Why didn’t I listen to you?
Now, things have changed for me. I am so glad that I have accepted your way. I’m not the same man I used to be. You have restored me. I live for you because you died for me. Thank you, my Lord. Jesus, you are mine and I thank you for giving your life to me.
I wanted you but I didn’t know it. I desired you but I ignored you. No one told me that things would be this way. How could I have known? How could I have known?
I wanted to change the way I am, but not like this I thought. I knew you were right on, but I rejected you anyway. I was doing my own thing but you came in and interrupted me. Why was I such a fool? Why didn’t I listen to you?
Now, things have changed for me. I am so glad that I have accepted your way. I’m not the same man I used to be. You have restored me. I live for you because you died for me. Thank you, my Lord. Jesus, you are mine and I thank you for giving your life to me.
Monday, January 3, 2011
A Captive of His Own Resolution
Locked in. My hands are tied behind my back. The bars that I built surround me. I grasp the whispering lies I tell myself. I see things that do not survive. The ghost of the past haunts me. I suppose that I’m going mad. How can I escape?
I stare at the cell walls, ignoring my condition. The pictures of my life overflow my mind. I calculate the days to leave behind the time. Life passes me by once more with every end of the day. There’s no hope for me.
I am a prisoner of my own choices. This place was made from me. The confused dwelt here among my decisions. My own heart hid away the keys to my salvation. The useless deeds I accomplished consumed my downfall. I was deceived.
I constructed this so-called great life around me. I shut myself inside from the outside world. I was the king of my own humanity. There was no hope of rescue. I was convinced that I was truly alive. You can’t save me.
Then He walked into my life. I discovered true love and true sacrifice. I believed that gospel and the chains around my heart fell away. The cell walls disappeared into oblivion. The door is now open. My eyes are opened, now I can see. My mind is clear and peace is with me. I am liberated.
I stare at the cell walls, ignoring my condition. The pictures of my life overflow my mind. I calculate the days to leave behind the time. Life passes me by once more with every end of the day. There’s no hope for me.
I am a prisoner of my own choices. This place was made from me. The confused dwelt here among my decisions. My own heart hid away the keys to my salvation. The useless deeds I accomplished consumed my downfall. I was deceived.
I constructed this so-called great life around me. I shut myself inside from the outside world. I was the king of my own humanity. There was no hope of rescue. I was convinced that I was truly alive. You can’t save me.
Then He walked into my life. I discovered true love and true sacrifice. I believed that gospel and the chains around my heart fell away. The cell walls disappeared into oblivion. The door is now open. My eyes are opened, now I can see. My mind is clear and peace is with me. I am liberated.
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